Comparison ROPS height, BX vs. B, and slopes!

[MossyDell]

Thanks for all the replies and info—this thread even generated an interesting side issue. DHD, will look into that protractor for assessing my slopes!

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I bought the optional 3ph arms for the first BX25 and never installed them. I got the 3ph arms with the B2620 FEL BH and never installed them. I did not get the $200+ 3 ph arms with my current BX25D. If I ever need them they will be available but keeping the box with the parts and then returning the unopened box.........well, not doing it again. Over 12 years and 20 Kubotas and the same properties, I've pretty well determined my needs.
I also do not believe your dealer that told you arms and thumb come with each and every BX25 at no extra cost to dealer and that may be the key word, extra cost to dealer. I'm also not sure about the bucket since there is a choice of size for the rear bucket but maybe so. I'll ask my dealer next time I go by.

 

[AxleHub]

I bought the optional 3ph arms for the first BX25 and never installed them. I got the 3ph arms with the B2620 FEL BH and never installed them. I did not get the $200+ 3 ph arms with my current BX25D. If I ever need them they will be available but keeping the box with the parts and then returning the unopened box.........well, not doing it again. Over 12 years and 20 Kubotas and the same properties, I've pretty well determined my needs.
I also do not believe your dealer that told you arms and thumb come with each and every BX25 at no extra cost to dealer and that may be the key word, extra cost to dealer. I'm also not sure about the bucket since there is a choice of size for the rear bucket but maybe so. I'll ask my dealer next time I go by.

Just curious why in 12 years you would own 20 Kubotas? Certainly it can't be because they are worn out or lost their usefulness.

 

[AxleHub]

Maybe a couple of points are worth clarifying. First, the backhoe equipped BX's like the BX25D have always been virtually the same tractors as the non-backhoe BX models. Same components, same basic performance... you'd have a hard time distinguishing a BX25D without its backhoe from a BX2370 parked next to it (other than the name badge of course!). The only substantive differences are the swivel seat and a heavier tractor frame on the BX25D. The reinforced frame adds about 175 lbs difference in weight and is designed to handle the extra stresses from operating a backhoe. It's NOT the subframe; we're talking about the tractor frame itself.

That heavier frame is why you can't simply hang a backhoe on a BX2370 and make it into a BX25D.

Greetings Grandad4,

I can't speak from my own experience, but I've read of several who converted a bx2660 or bx2670 to Use a kubota bx24 or bx25 backhoe. cschlze is one.

I also read of a poster who had the unfortunate luck of having his newer bx25d get caught in a fire. His bh with less than 3 hours on it wasn't in the same building . . so he pulled off all the subframe from his bx25d and was going to sell the subframe parts and the near new bh. To someone who might be interested in converting a unit because his insurance company didn't want the shiny new bh.

He had pictures.

But lets be clear about my suggestion. The goal for russell and the other wouldbe bx25d buyer was not because of uncertain needs . . they wanted the benefits of size and safety of the bx but wanted the extra 2 hp at rear pto and the extra 3hp at engine that the bx25d didn't offer. Thus the bx2670-1 suggestion.

I also read in another thread where adding the new aftermarket Woods bh to a BX2670-1 would price out at less than $5500. Typically the backhoe difference between a bx2370-1 and a bx25d is 4500 plus tax plus 3pt hitch cost. But my understanding is that the new Woods bh offers superior capacity etc. to the bx25d. Once again its a 2 step effort but it does allow for a quality larger bx to be used with a quality implement with good or better options or performance than the smaller bx25d offers.

Just my 2 cents. A bx25d makes for a convenient choice . . but for some . . not always the perfect bx fit they might need.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Just curious why in 12 years you would own 20 Kubotas? Certainly it can't be because they are worn out or lost their usefulness.

Each transaction and the reasoning behind it at the time are posted over the years under my name if your that interested. I currently own six (6) Kubotas. A BX1500 (for SIL), BX25D home and business use (rental property), F2680e flat rental property mowing, F3080 home hillside mowing, RTV1140 and a Z122r wife help me mow at home.
I started with 5 hillside acres, built home, did major landscaping, doing minor landscaping, bought several acres of rental property with 6 septic tanks. Changes in life, changes in priorities and changes in what does the best job for my ongoing/current needs. Ever changing world and life. Maybe when I turn 68 in a couple of months I'll get over my mid life crisis and doing different things and become more stable but I sure pray not.
I've also bought over 170 cars/trucks since 1964 so it's not just tractors/Kubotas.
I'm a convinced F owner that they are the best mowing machine made........resisted Zs until a few weeks ago...Now.......Might would trade my current F2680e 72" with 150 hours under 50 hours side discharge deck to a bigger Kubota diesel Z because the F is fast and grand but a Z with a big enough deck might do better around the rental units.:laughing::thumbsup::cool2:
Now do you understand? :laughing: I don't LOVE em but I do LIKE em. Same for cars and trucks. They are all for sale or trade except for the F3080 72" RD deck.

 

[AxleHub]

Each transaction and the reasoning behind it at the time are posted over the years under my name if your that interested. I currently own six (6) Kubotas. A BX1500 (for SIL), BX25D home and business use (rental property), F2680e flat rental property mowing, F3080 home hillside mowing, RTV1140 and a Z122r wife help me mow at home.
I started with 5 hillside acres, built home, did major landscaping, doing minor landscaping, bought several acres of rental property with 6 septic tanks. Changes in life, changes in priorities and changes in what does the best job for my ongoing/current needs. Ever changing world and life. Maybe when I turn 68 in a couple of months I'll get over my mid life crisis and doing different things and become more stable but I sure pray not.
I've also bought over 170 cars/trucks since 1964 so it's not just tractors/Kubotas.
I'm a convinced F owner that they are the best mowing machine made........resisted Zs until a few weeks ago...Now.......Might would trade my current F2680e 72" with 150 hours under 50 hours side discharge deck to a bigger Kubota diesel Z because the F is fast and grand but a Z with a big enough deck might do better around the rental units.:laughing::thumbsup::cool2:
Now do you understand? :laughing: I don't LOVE em but I do LIKE em. Same for cars and trucks. They are all for sale or trade except for the F3080 72" RD deck.

Johnthomas,

From your description I can assume a few things:

1. You must have a fair amount of storage enclosed to house everything.

2. You may be popular with the neighbors . . Cause you've got the equipment.

3. Either you have your servicing hat on often with oil changes and fluids checking or you are popular with someone's service dept. (Tractors and vehicles).

4. I bet you get invited to many implement and vehicle open house events and they recognize you from a distance

P.s. you mention you have a mower for yiur wife too for cutting ar home. I just acquired a slightly usedcub cadet zero turn tractor for my wife (tractor not rider). What a nice stable unit for grass ond snowblowing for her.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . I've also bought over 170 cars/trucks since 1964 so it's not just tractors/Kubotas. . . .

:thumbsup:

I knew about the Kubotas, but not the autos. Wow!! I just counted and I've owned 15 cars/trucks since 1968 (when I got my first one).

Now, if we counted motorcycles too, I could catch up a little bit, but it still wouldn't be a close race.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Johnthomas,

From your description I can assume a few things:

1. You must have a fair amount of storage enclosed to house everything.
First thing I built was a 12'x20' pad for my first ever tractor, a BX2200 MMM FEL and later made it two stories high for kids playhouse up stairs. Also have a 24'x72' storage bldg. at rental property plus 5 12'x24' storage rentals that I use most of them and added another 12'x26' side on my two story 26'x26' garage/workshop at home and the RTV still stays out side and one of my cars that I'm giving my niece when she'll come get it. So, yes I do and would like to build a 30'x40' metal storage bldg. behind my brothers house who lives next door but alas, that's on hold........for awhile.

2. You may be popular with the neighbors . . Cause you've got the equipment.
My brother next door has a yard from the magazines and yes, he gets tractor services. Helped him remove 12 blighted Leland Cypress trees over 40' tall this week with BX25 and took brush over to his two burn piles and he bought me 6 gallons of fuel which he didn't have to do. I also ask neighbors if they need holes dug when the BX25 is at home location. So, yes I guess I may be.

3. Either you have your servicing hat on often with oil changes and fluids checking or you are popular with someone's service dept. (Tractors and vehicles).
I do all oil, filters and fluid changes........but usually trade before second one is due but have done some second and third changes.

4. I bet you get invited to many implement and vehicle open house events and they recognize you from a distance
Barlows has sent me some (I only buy Kubota and car dealers don't care) and yes, Barlows staff know or recognize me.

P.s. you mention you have a mower for yiur wife too for cutting ar home. I just acquired a slightly usedcub cadet zero turn tractor for my wife (tractor not rider). What a nice stable unit for grass ond snowblowing for her.

Great to have help(ers) from time to time. I usually do everything myself but age on the body seems to be causing a slow down and I take old man Vitamins. Working out arrangements for help mowing at rental property. Don't golf, bowl, chew, smoke, drink much so most of my time and money go for the slight pleasures of life like travel, tractors, vehicles and donating. I do Personal/Family Counseling at no charge, by appointment during my free time.

 

[russellm]

I bought the optional 3ph arms for the first BX25 and never installed them. I got the 3ph arms with the B2620 FEL BH and never installed them. I did not get the $200+ 3 ph arms with my current BX25D. If I ever need them they will be available but keeping the box with the parts and then returning the unopened box.........well, not doing it again. Over 12 years and 20 Kubotas and the same properties, I've pretty well determined my needs.
I also do not believe your dealer that told you arms and thumb come with each and every BX25 at no extra cost to dealer and that may be the key word, extra cost to dealer. I'm also not sure about the bucket since there is a choice of size for the rear bucket but maybe so. I'll ask my dealer next time I go by.

He actually never said "no cost to him". What he said was every BX25D comes with the thumb and the 3PH in the FEL bucket (can't 100% recall if he said the 12" bucket came too). Again he had no reason to lie about that, it makes logical sense if 95% of the tractors sell with the 3PH and thumb. It does not mean that a dealer can't back a cost out of their entry price for those two items to lower the "entry" price of the tractor (which is exactly what one of his competitors does). I think his main point was to compare the prices after you add all the pieces you want and don't be fooled by "entry" price points alone.

Regards
Russell

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

He actually never said "no cost to him". What he said was every BX25D comes with the thumb and the 3PH in the FEL bucket (can't 100% recall if he said the 12" bucket came too). Again he had no reason to lie about that, it makes logical sense if 95% of the tractors sell with the 3PH and thumb. It does not mean that a dealer can't back a cost out of their entry price for those two items to lower the "entry" price of the tractor (which is exactly what one of his competitors does). I think his main point was to compare the prices after you add all the pieces you want and don't be fooled by "entry" price points alone.

Regards
Russell

I contend most and even very few bX25s sell with the thumb. I traded for a thumb for my B2620 and never mounted it and when I traded the B2620 to the BX25D I traded the thumb I had in the box for one installed on the BX25D, my first thumb and I for one am not sold on its value vs its cost. Rare here to hear from BX owners with BH thumbs or maybe they are just not speaking up.
I'll ask the dealer here today if they come with tractor and how costs are determined regarding 3 ph arms and thumb. Sure a bucket comes with it since it is included in price with bigger bucket being an add on price like thumb and 3 ph arms.

 

[Grandad4]

Greetings Grandad4,

I can't speak from my own experience, but I've read of several who converted a bx2660 or bx2670 to Use a kubota bx24 or bx25 backhoe. cschlze is one.

I also read of a poster who had the unfortunate luck of having his newer bx25d get caught in a fire. His bh with less than 3 hours on it wasn't in the same building . . so he pulled off all the subframe from his bx25d and was going to sell the subframe parts and the near new bh. To someone who might be interested in converting a unit because his insurance company didn't want the shiny new bh.
....

I also read in another thread where adding the new aftermarket Woods bh to a BX2670-1 would price out at less than $5500. Typically the backhoe difference between a bx2370-1 and a bx25d is 4500 plus tax plus 3pt hitch cost. But my understanding is that the new Woods bh offers superior capacity etc. to the bx25d. Once again its a 2 step effort but it does allow for a quality larger bx to be used with a quality implement with good or better options or performance than the smaller bx25d offers.

Thanks for this... had not seen those threads about mounting the little Kub BH on a standard BX. Also not surprised Woods brought out a souped-up BH to compete better against the OEM product.

In both situations I would pay attention to the lack of frame reinforcement on the standard BX model when using the backhoe. The twisting forces a BH can put on a tractor when doing off-centerline digging can be severe. Evidently Kub thought the standard BX frame was vulnerable to damage and beefed-up the frame accordingly. If one is using a hybrid BH setup or an aftermarket hoe, conservative use would seem to make sense to me.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

He actually never said "no cost to him". What he said was every BX25D comes with the thumb and the 3PH in the FEL bucket (can't 100% recall if he said the 12" bucket came too). Again he had no reason to lie about that, it makes logical sense if 95% of the tractors sell with the 3PH and thumb. It does not mean that a dealer can't back a cost out of their entry price for those two items to lower the "entry" price of the tractor (which is exactly what one of his competitors does). I think his main point was to compare the prices after you add all the pieces you want and don't be fooled by "entry" price points alone.

Regards
Russell

I asked Gary (Guy that checks in the new equipment) at Barlows today about the thumb, bucket and 3 ph arms coming with every BX25. He said only the standard 12" BH bucket comes with it. All other mentioned parts like the 8" BH bucket, thumb and 3ph arms are a separate order and do not come with the BX25 unless they are specifically ordered, not auto ship.
Your dealer may have the practice of always ordering those items when he/she orders a BX25 and upsells his BX25s with the added thumb and 3ph arms like everyone always does that and makes a bit of extra profit on his sales. Car dealers do that a lot or did in days gone by when options could be ordered for each car.

 

[MossyDell]

I started this thread and have found its evolution really interesting. Including that it kind of has turned into a backhoe thread.

Well, in that spirit I have a dumb question but it's serious. What do folks use backhoes for? I know, digging holes, but for what?

I have owned two Kubotas and a JD and have no doubt that fel, finish and rough mowers, box blade, snow blade and the rest are VITAL. I even had a post pounder and an auger at one time. I built a lot of fence.

But I honestly don't get the need for the bh. Or is it one of those things that once you have it, you see all kinds of need?

 

[dragoneggs]

I bought mine with a thumb and have used it several times... would use it much more if it were hydraulic. It is a bit of pain, especially as I am not seasoned to know where to put the pin for best placement. Also it is hard to remove the pin so a punch is handy to carry. But if I keep procrastinating or waiting until 4Shorts puts out a kit... I will have all my 'thumb' projects finished. :laughing: Oh, and I have the 12in bucket... the 8in I felt would not move enough material and get clogged easier. For thin trenching I plan to get a ripper tooth or something.

 

[dragoneggs]

I started this thread and have found its evolution really interesting. Including that it kind of has turned into a backhoe thread.

Well, in that spirit I have a dumb question but it's serious. What do folks use backhoes for? I know, digging holes, but for what?

I have owned two Kubotas and a JD and have no doubt that fel, finish and rough mowers, box blade, snow blade and the rest are VITAL. I even had a post pounder and an auger at one time. I built a lot of fence.

But I honestly don't get the need for the bh. Or is it one of those things that once you have it, you see all kinds of need?

I have a lot of trenching to do and terracing so the BH is great for me. It is a bit of a pain to remove and then install the 3pt hitch for other stuff. I can see the day when I don't really need the BH but it sure nice for digging for landscaping/planting as well as trenches. Also for tearing out stumps, heavy brush, cleaning ditches, etc. Lastly it is just dang fun! Maybe the last thing will be my grave... can't see getting rid of it 'cause I know as soon as I do, I will regret it. It is pricey so if you don't have a lot of digging it probably is hard to justify.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I started this thread and have found its evolution really interesting. Including that it kind of has turned into a backhoe thread.

Well, in that spirit I have a dumb question but it's serious. What do folks use backhoes for? I know, digging holes, but for what?

I have owned two Kubotas and a JD and have no doubt that fel, finish and rough mowers, box blade, snow blade and the rest are VITAL. I even had a post pounder and an auger at one time. I built a lot of fence.

But I honestly don't get the need for the bh. Or is it one of those things that once you have it, you see all kinds of need?

I once posted a request for users to let me know what they did with BH with little to no response. I own some rental property with 6 septic tanks so I bought a Kubota with a BH (tax deductable). My last three Kubota tractors have BH and plan to always have one for convience and rental property needs but if I sell rental property I'll still own a BH. They dig holes and if you don't ever need a hole dug or rarely ned a hole dug or can schedule all yout hole digging at one time then you don't need to buy a BH. I for one want it there for when I want to dig a single hole or a bunch of holes to move trees, grasses, shrubs, stumps, rocks, etc.

 

[RalphVa]

One of the reasons I went with the JD 4010 over a BX 1830 at the time. The JD had a fixed ROPS that fitted (just barely) underneath my garage doors.

Almost wish I had the BX though, as the JD 1025 (that replaced the 4010) is just too much HP and uses too much fuel.

Ralph

 

[tractorshopper]

I didn't touch on ROPS height either. I had to adjust my garage door when I bought my L3800 and got the max opening on it so my L3800 would fit. It actually just grazed the rubber piece ever so slightly but I was able to get in and out.

Fast forward to my BX-2370. It is probably only an inch or so shorter than the ROPS on the L3800 was. I really don't know why this is other than my L3800 ROPS was also wider and so maybe it gave more head room due to that in the event of a roll. Now the ROPS is narrower on the BX-2370, so maybe it needs to be higher to create more space in the even of a roll?

Don't know, but it seems pretty high. At least on the BX, I can fold the ROPS if necessary. Haven't done it yet, but probably will at some point.

 

[AxleHub]

I didn't touch on ROPS height either. I had to adjust my garage door when I bought my L3800 and got the max opening on it so my L3800 would fit. It actually just grazed the rubber piece ever so slightly but I was able to get in and out.

Fast forward to my BX-2370. It is probably only an inch or so shorter than the ROPS on the L3800 was. I really don't know why this is other than my L3800 ROPS was also wider and so maybe it gave more head room due to that in the event of a roll. Now the ROPS is narrower on the BX-2370, so maybe it needs to be higher to create more space in the even of a roll?

Don't know, but it seems pretty high. At least on the BX, I can fold the ROPS if necessary. Haven't done it yet, but probably will at some point.

It appears on several subcompact brands that their latest versions their rops are wider than their prior updates (kubota bx, yanmar 221, etc.).

 

[MossyDell]

Here is a picture of the worst slope, at the top of the hill where the house sits. It does not look as steep here as what it does in person. What percent slope, can anyone tell? The worst part of it is the swath right after it falls off from the house, in line with those two evergreens.

Except for that little piece maybe, I used to mow across a hill like this on my John Deere 970, 33 hp. 4WD with weights on the front and filled rear tires. In my came-with-house JD lawn tractor, I am afraid to mow a lot of it going across and have to run up and down. Climbing is interesting.

Not sure this is a BX or a B hill.

To follow up on my old post, today I dragged out this cart to show the slope but I also put my iPhone on it and used the Level function to determine this is an 18% slope. By now, I've been mowing it steadily for four years. I alternative going across it and running up and down.

Have had no issues but don't feel as comfortable on it on my B2601 tractor. Odd since I used to mow a worse hill with my JD 970, but I am older and that tractor had a wider stance and was heavier. I mow this hill with a 27 yoa JD rider with wheel weights and hiking cushions over the rear fenders made by our place's previous owner. I do hike now for extra safety but feel I am too slow to get clear if it did start to overturn. At the far side of this slope, just to the left of those small evergreens, the slope briefly seems to fall away sharper, just a small spot, but that's all it takes.

The problem with only running up and down is that my 2WD rider starts to freewheel and flies super fast down hill. I use my brake but that can lock the wheels. Maybe I should try mowing at an angle? Basically going up and down but more 45%?