Why do I want to buy a pre-Tier4 tractor?

[Cougsfan]

Here is an indication of how much buyers hate Pre Tier 4 emissions. Wait, it shows everything is up. I'll be darned.

In general, Tier 4 engines, if computerized with common rail injection, DOC, DEF and DPF, can get a lot more power per unit displacement because they can clean up the exhaust with their aftertreatment. In addition, the high pressure common rail systems break the diesel into much finer droplets so more of the fuel injected gets burned instead of being used to create a cloud of soot.

I think you are reading way too much into that graph, Harry. Sales are up because more people need tractors, not because they like tier 4. In fact most tractor buyers don't even know what tier 4 is all about.

An injection system that breaks the diesel into finer droplets is a good thing in any diesel, whether the tractor is tier 4 compliant or not, and doesn't necessarily depend on computerization, doc, def and dpf being installed. So your second statement is half right.

 

[MHarryE]

There have been many long threads on this site in which people state that they will never buy a Tier 4 compliant tractor, but maybe this site has hard core anti-tech people. I keep looking to add equipment to my fleet and do not find buyer premiums on pre-Tier 4. In fact I have brochures for mid-size ag tractors and all have a section advertising their clean burning Tier 4 engines. So if a customer is not aware, they have not looked at the specifications. Maybe they don't pay attention but my friends who have updated are impressed with capabilities. But the increased demand for new tractors - explain? Are there that many more people? Or are there that many more people who find the limitations of their tractor can be overcome by upgrading?

 

[PeteN]

Working tractor at said rpms would do the same pretty much.

Correct, but according to the dealer and your post the only way a Branson with the exhaust throttle will complete a Regen cycle is to do what you stated, Park it, set the brakes, turn up the rpms, and walk away. You can keep working if the light starts blinking. I believe other tractor's strategies will regen while the tractor is being used but you must keep the revs up.

 

[jyoutz]

Aspirin is cheaper.

Sucking that stuff for hours isn’t healthy.

 

[mikester]

Tier-4 engines and all the electronics work great until they don't, then they are an expensive PITA nightmare at times. If you have a mechanic on staff and spare vehicles then no problems at all.

Notice that late model transport truck on the side of the road with lights flashing? Limp mode. The dealer-only mechanic has to plug in his laptop to reset the software switch. $500 please...

If you get paid by the mile then no thanks.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Sucking that stuff for hours isn’t healthy.

My granddaddy lived to 88 and had never been to a doctor or a dentist. Truck patched a 40 all my life, lived on the next hill from us. Maybe the fumes got to him finally after all. We don't know why he died. Doctor said stomach cancer probably. He did buy tobacco in 10 lb bags and never spit, swallowed it.

 

[PeteN]

The flapper is only engaged when a regen is initiated in the light on the DPF button on the dash, instructions says to stop the tractor and put on park brake. Take it up to highest RPM and hold DPF button for 15 seconds and wait for the process to finish.

I was thinking about this some more and I theorized that they need to use that combination of steps to do the regen with the exhaust throttle. I'm still thinking the exhaust throttle is there to retain heat in the exhaust system to get the temps up. However, when you create the restriction from the exhaust throttle you are also restricting the power the engine can develop. That along with the soot restriction in the DPF (which initiated the regen process) would probably be notable if you were actually working the engine hard. Run it at no load/high speeds in a stationary mode and no one will notice. There's also the chance that if you're running around while the regen is occurring of reducing engine speed and not maintaining enough exhaust temp. Still seems like a waste of fuel to me unless you are running something like a wood chipper on the back with the PTO while it is doing its thing.

 

[Cougsfan]

There have been many long threads on this site in which people state that they will never buy a Tier 4 compliant tractor, but maybe this site has hard core anti-tech people.

I know it might appear that people like me are anti-tech, but that's not really true at all. Technology has made life so much more wonderful in many ways. But there is a place for it and a point where it becomes a hindrance rather than a benefit. As Mikester pointed out, "They work great until they don't then, they are an expensive PITA nightmare at times." A tractor is a utility machine that will hopefully be around and still working 40-50 years from now. At least that is how it has been for the last century or so. But computers controls and sophistication is changing all that. In all likelihood a large percentage of today's new tractors will be setting in a junkyard 10 years from now because of things like the electronic controls to engage the hydro static drive no longer works, or the tractor mysteriously dies now and then, or the tractor goes into regen mode when it shouldn't, and no one knows how, or can't afford to fix it. I have seen people sell their relatively new tractor because of frustration over repeated controls failure.

Technology is nice when it works, but horrible when it doesn't. Simplicity has true advantages that you can't deny. In both car and tractor manufacturing , software engineers are beginning to outnumber the mechanical engineers. That makes for great rigs that have impressive features on the showroom floor to help make a sale, but is far less impressive 5 or 10 years down the road when those features fail.

 

[gsganzer]

I'd prefer my tractor be as simple as possible. There's already enough headaches keeping machinery maintained and working. Any potential problems with the emissions equipment on tractors is likely exacerbated because they're likely to sit days/weeks between uses for the average owner and probably spend a good deal of their time in harsher environments (outdoors, rodents under the hood, rain, mud, grime etc.).

The headaches and added costs with more complex equipment isn't imagined. I have a friend in California that owns a trucking company. He said when their fleet swapped to trucks equipped with diesel emissions equipment, his monthly towing and repair bill increased substantially, like nearly double.

I bought my Kubota L3800 at the transition year between the L3800 and the newer L3901 and specifically searched for a dealer that had a new L3800, rather than buy a L3901.

 

[jyoutz]

My granddaddy lived to 88 and had never been to a doctor or a dentist. Truck patched a 40 all my life, lived on the next hill from us. Maybe the fumes got to him finally after all. We don't know why he died. Doctor said stomach cancer probably. He did buy tobacco in 10 lb bags and never spit, swallowed it.

You are more than welcome to suck exhaust fumes just like grandpa did. I prefer working in cleaner air and no sinus congestion. The tier 4 tractors are a joy to operate.