Why do I want to buy a pre-Tier4 tractor?

[5030]

At some point in time tractors with mufflers need the muffler replaced.

Interesting comment. I guess the muffler and exhaust pipe on my 2002 Kubota M9 is bulletproof because it has a tad over 6000 hours on it and it 'muffles' just fine. Mufflers rot out from condensation inside, not from use.

 

[5030]

You are more than welcome to suck exhaust fumes just like grandpa did. I prefer working in cleaner air and no sinus congestion. The tier 4 tractors are a joy to operate.

Until you have issues that only your dealer can address. T4 units are not consumer fixable, especially the emissions components and the ECM.

You are correct in saying the available post 4 units are getting less and less on the market. Two reasons for that. One, people (like me) are keeping their pre 4 units and because they are hard to get, a used pre 4 units are commanding premium prices. I'll take my fuel efficient, mechanically injected stone simple diesel engines over a post 4 mess anyday.

been offered 30 for one of my pre 4 tractors that is 22 years old and that is about 10 less than I pad new for it. The way it's going, in another few years it will be worth what I paid for it NEW. That will never happen with a post 4 unit. They depreciate.

If Rudolph Diesel was alive today, he'd be pizzed at what tree huggers did to his engine.

 

[jyoutz]

Until you have issues that only your dealer can address. T4 units are not consumer fixable, especially the emissions components and the ECM.

You are correct in saying the available post 4 units are getting less and less on the market. Two reasons for that. One, people (like me) are keeping their pre 4 units and because they are hard to get, a used pre 4 units are commanding premium prices. I'll take my fuel efficient, mechanically injected stone simple diesel engines over a post 4 mess anyday.

been offered 30 for one of my pre 4 tractors that is 22 years old and that is about 10 less than I pad new for it. The way it's going, in another few years it will be worth what I paid for it NEW. That will never happen with a post 4 unit. They depreciate.

If Rudolph Diesel was alive today, he'd be pizzed at what tree huggers did to his engine.

I only change fluids and filters on my old tractor. I have no desire to tear into engines and gearboxes. Anything more goes to the dealer. The same thing with my Dodge/Cummins. I seldom need to take it to the dealer. Modern common rail diesel motors are far more capable and reliable than Rudolph Diesel’s antiques.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

You are more than welcome to suck exhaust fumes just like grandpa did. I prefer working in cleaner air and no sinus congestion. The tier 4 tractors are a joy to operate.

Yeah but when it comes down to it you are relying on those cargo ships in California. We have six tractors from 1980 through early 90's and one fairly new big cab tractor, non DEF. None not one has been to a shop. Believe me they get used. Fuel, engine oil, hydraulic oil, bring on the apocalypse. Hose machine, 60kw generator, cows and ground I can plow. Soon you will be breathing volcanic ash anyway. LaPampa, Italy, Hawaii, ring of fire is starting.

 

[4570Man]

You are more than welcome to suck exhaust fumes just like grandpa did. I prefer working in cleaner air and no sinus congestion. The tier 4 tractors are a joy to operate.

Maybe if you’re using a 50 year old worn out piece of junk. A pre tier tractor runs pretty clean.

 

[DieselBound]

Zero issues with my Tier-IV Kioti now with 702 hrs.

I'm not on any single bandwagon. Have a mix of diesels and all work great! But, yes, more complexity means more things that COULD go wrong; doesn't mean that they will (in a reasonable, expected lifetime): pretty sure that people were predicting doom with the "computers" on VW ALH TDI cars; my car is 21 years-old with 220k miles and there's been ZERO computer issues. Sensors, I won't argue that they're not a source of problems; wish that they were cheaper and that one could stock up on spares, just like one would stock up on other parts that were known failure points on other equipment (pretty hard to find anything that doesn't have some sort of weak spot).

I have old diesel equipment and I figure that being fully depreciated means that if they're pried from my hands (due to regulations or such) then I'm not out all that much. But, this IS something to factor in. When you think you have everything covered it's time to reconsider...

 

[Brambleberry]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I just went and looked at a really well maintained and lowish hours L4150 not too far away from me, for a pretty fair price I think. Has a 2-way tilt 8' snowplow blade on the front, which I would want to remove and possibly try to sell, but the good thing is that it has a 2-lever valve waiting out of the way on the fender if I ever decided to mount a FEL on it. Currently I don't want a FEL since I have a skidsteer to do material moving.

Everything I've been reading about L4150 applauds it for being a really solid and reliable time-tested model.

I forced myself to not take any cash with me so that I will have to chew on the decision to buy it for a few days before pulling the trigger.

This thing seems to have everything (and actually a little more with the 540/750 pto switch) that the M5660 that I am considering brand new has, except for the hydraulic shuttle shift (wet clutch would be nice but the 4140 had a new clutch installed just 500 hours ago), folding ROPS, and the constant rpm management feature. And of course the DPF, which I'd sort of lean towards if it wasn't linked to a computer. The L4150 started up clean as a whistle though, I couldn't even smell the diesel while running it for 20 minutes.

Any last thoughts before I make the move?

 

[Cycledude]

Remember the days when many folks refused to buy anything with electric start ? Or tubeless tires ? Air conditioning ? Obviously the list is never ending.
I have personally have had absolutely no trouble with my tier 4 tractor and if I ever did I’m pretty sure my dealer wouldn’t have much trouble fixing it. I would however prefer to avoid buying any tractor that requires using that extra DEF fluid.

 

[jyoutz]

Remember the days when many folks refused to buy anything with electric start ? Or tubeless tires ? Air conditioning ? Obviously the list is never ending.
I have personally have had absolutely no trouble with my tier 4 tractor and if I ever did I’m pretty sure my dealer wouldn’t have much trouble fixing it. I would however prefer to avoid buying any tractor that requires using that extra DEF fluid.

Walmart sells DEF fluid for $15 for 2.4 gallons. In my Volkswagen car, that much used to last 30k miles. On a tractor, that is at least 100 hours of use. The cost is negligible.

 

[ruffdog]

The last year that Ram tried not using DEF (2012), it didn't work out by just using EGR. I think they switched the next year (with DEF) early during the production year.