Diesel Additive - which one, and how much?

[ruffdog]

Stanadyne has 4 different additives depending on your priorities.

 

[Fallon]

I think you will be fine using nothing but a biocide. Keep it simple. Two things that bother me about additives. One is when the claim too much. You know, it improves fuel mileage, cleans injectors, ends world hunger etc. The truth is the people that make diesel would add stuff if it helped. They could probably buy these additives in bulk quantity cheap.

The second is when people say “I’ve been using xxxxxxx for 30 years and never had a problem”. Maybe if they hadn’t been using it they wouldn’t have had problems.

Yup.

I use the biocide as I store fuel for a while & anti-gell as it gets cold. Both reasonably testable scenarios, not that I want to risk it.

Other claims may or may not be true. I'm pretty sure increased mileage claims are generally bogus. Better lubrication may be realistic but I I'm running a modern machine designed for modern fuel.

 

[jjp8182]

I think you will be fine using nothing but a biocide. Keep it simple. Two things that bother me about additives. One is when the claim too much. You know, it improves fuel mileage, cleans injectors, ends world hunger etc. The truth is the people that make diesel would add stuff if it helped. They could probably buy these additives in bulk quantity cheap.

The second is when people say “I’ve been using xxxxxxx for 30 years and never had a problem”. Maybe if they hadn’t been using it they wouldn’t have had problems.

I agree with the first part of that, but I wouldn't count on the distributors/refiners adding anything to for long term storage of diesel.

Don't see they'd have much incentive to do that between the cost and so many just refilling the vehicle(s) using the fuel.

 

[newbury]

A couple of points I want to make. I see lubricity brought up a lot. That’s probably important on older machines but not on newer tractors that are designed to run on low sulfur diesel.
<snip>

It may depend on the tractor.
The lubricity was needed in 2010 era Vw's and some american trucks that used Bosch common rail systems.

the Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump that come stock on a 2011 to 2016 Duramax engines has led to thousands of catastrophic failures.

from Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Provide Insufficient Lubricity - AMSOIL Authorized Dealer

 

[ruffdog]

It may depend on the tractor.
The lubricity was needed in 2010 era Vw's and some american trucks that used Bosch common rail systems.

from Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Provide Insufficient Lubricity - AMSOIL Authorized Dealer

Here is an interesting article about those Bosch pumps:

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/what-is-cp4-failure/

 

[jjeff]

Off ops topic but not looking forward to when my LMM cp4 pump goes, just changed the fuel filter for the 2nd time. still was very clean with no water very simple to bleed, I try to change every 50k despite the obd tells me it still has 25%+life Hardest part was reinstalling the fender liner without a lift. After reading the posts and links may try additives for additional lubrication. Thanks.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Off ops topic but not looking forward to when my LMM cp4 pump goes, just changed the fuel filter for the 2nd time. still was very clean with no water very simple to bleed, I try to change every 50k despite the obd tells me it still has 25%+life Hardest part was reinstalling the fender liner without a lift. After reading the posts and links may try additives for additional lubrication. Thanks.

I have seen a few CP4 pump horror stories, the guys I know using lubricity additives are getting longer life out of there pumps. One guy replaced his pump before failure as a precaution.

I know this is an old study at the link here, but it is very informative about diesel additives.

Lubricity Additive Study Results

 

[jjeff]

O

I have seen a few CP4 pump horror stories, the guys I know using lubricity additives are getting longer life out of there pumps. One guy replaced his pump before failure as a precaution.

I know this is an old study at the link here, but it is very informative about diesel additives.

Lubricity Additive Study Results

Thanks very informative, bookmarking that page. Side note, You know have to much equipment when its a part time job maintaining and fixing all your stuff, let alone remember what engines your running lol. My truck has the LML engine not the previous LMM, If I "remember correctly" the LML has a 9th injector for regen and has an exhaust brake, but still has the cp4 pump, unfortunately. Seems like there are a lot of options to mitigate and permanently repair if pump fails while still keeping the truck mostly stock, I've found on different websites.
Thanks again!

 

[Number15]

That report is from 2007 I think. None of it likely applies today. I mean companies change formulations all the time. Useful 10 years ago but just interesting stale data now.

 

[ruffdog]

That report is from 2007 I think. None of it likely applies today. I mean companies change formulations all the time. Useful 10 years ago but just interesting stale data now.

Also, one company had 3 products while others had one....and not the lube formula. Some were used at the high end of the mix ratio while others were mixed at the low end. I agree...stale data at best. I also could care less which additives are better than others, I would just like a real test.

 

[jjeff]

Also, one company had 3 products while others had one....and not the lube formula. Some were used at the high end of the mix ratio while others were mixed at the low end. I agree...stale data at best. I also could care less which additives are better than others, I would just like a real test.

I liked the fact it explained additives
pretty well to someone who doesn't have a degree in organic chemistry like myself and gave some insight on what to look for in a additive. Totally agree newer independent tests need to be done for the hundreds of additives out there, for both gas and diesel, especially with all the extra stuff used for emission systems and higher pressure fuel systems.

 

[Texasmark]

OK. I'm new to this. I recently purchased some additional equipment, and I got tire of having to run into town to fill up five gallon cans every day. Our ranch is in rural Texas and a round trip to town take a minimum of an hour. Short is I bought a 200 gallon tank, got my permit for farm diesel, and got it filled. We are in Central Texas south of Abilene. Fairly dry, and usually not terribly cold. I know that I need to put additives in the tank, but what do I use and how much of it?

I use Power Services in the grey container for fuel hygiene. Directions are on the container. White container is anti-jel. On what it is, pull up the history of the founder and it will give you some insight that is does what it needs to do. Most auto parts outlets carry it including wallyworld.

 

[Fallon]

I liked the fact it explained additives
pretty well to someone who doesn't have a degree in organic chemistry like myself and gave some insight on what to look for in a additive. Totally agree newer independent tests need to be done for the hundreds of additives out there, for both gas and diesel, especially with all the extra stuff used for emission systems and higher pressure fuel systems.

Who would fund all that testing? Not the manufacturers, at least not that I would trust to do anything but just show their stuff is best. We are talking thousands in products to test, plus the fuel, plus test equipment and weeks or more likely months to run the testing.

Consumer Reports? Project Farm on YouTube? Not sure there would be enough subscriber or add revenue to justify that. The government (not looking to start a political argument on "wasting taxpayer dollars" & government overreach vs something that serves the public good)?

Unfortunately we are generally left with making a best guess on what products (if any) to use. It might get us somewhere, that's good enough, buy won't get us to the best answer in list cases. My best guess is power service for anti-gell & a biocide. It works for me. Who knows if something else would work better, or if it's even needed at all. I'm not going to risk trying something else at this point.

 

[oldballs]

I used Power Service white bottle for 12 years in late model Kubotas. Then about 12 months ago, I wanted to buy another bottle at the local Kubota dealership and could not find it. The parts guy said that Kubota Corp says the alcohol in the PS degrades the rubber seals in the injectors (I think that's what he said). So the dealership had an alternate product (BG DFC plus all season diesel conditioner) that costs $41 (treats 250 gallons). I didn't like the price so I went to Howes (about $10.00 per bottle at Walmart treat 320 gallons.) because it said it has no alcohol in it. The first twelve years with PS, all went well as far as I know. This past year with Howes, things are going OK as well. It claims no Cetane boost however.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[dodge man]

I will just add I am not a fan of additives but am for anti gelling. I’ve had it happen to me three times and no others who have it happen. For reference I live in Illinois near the Iowa Missouri border. Like shown in the earlier video the fuel gets thick. In my case I was using Howes and unlike in the video my gelling it got much thicker in the fuel filter. I changed it and tossed it outside on the ground, it didn’t even melt when it warmed up. I suspect the paraffins separated out.

In my experience it has to get cold and stay cold. One night won’t do it. By cold I mean near zero. It can happen if if you store it inside and it’s heated. Twice on my Kubota BX happened when I was doing snow removal, cold slush was splashing up underneath.

 

[ruffdog]

I used Power Service white bottle for 12 years in late model Kubotas. Then about 12 months ago, I wanted to buy another bottle at the local Kubota dealership and could not find it. The parts guy said that Kubota Corp says the alcohol in the PS degrades the rubber seals in the injectors (I think that's what he said). So the dealership had an alternate product (BG DFC plus all season diesel conditioner) that costs $41 (treats 250 gallons). I didn't like the price so I went to Howes (about $10.00 per bottle at Walmart treat 320 gallons.) because it said it has no alcohol in it. The first twelve years with PS, all went well as far as I know. This past year with Howes, things are going OK as well. It claims no Cetane boost however.

Cheers,
Mike

From PS....only the 9-1-1 formula contains alcohol in it, neither white or gray bottle PS does.

Update on Power service and the alcohol.

 

[hube2]

From PS....only the 9-1-1 formula contains alcohol in it, neither white or gray bottle PS does.

Update on Power service and the alcohol.

That's what I thought, but could not find information to contradict. I know PS is what my dealer carries and recommends which is the reason I started using it.

 

[oldballs]

Thanks guys.........My next purchase will be the PS White bottle.

Cheers.
Mike

 

[ruffdog]

Yup.

I use the biocide as I store fuel for a while & anti-gell as it gets cold. Both reasonably testable scenarios, not that I want to risk it.

Other claims may or may not be true. I'm pretty sure increased mileage claims are generally bogus. Better lubrication may be realistic but I I'm running a modern machine designed for modern fuel.

I'm sure all these Ram truck owners thought that they had pumps designed for ULSD fuel. 222k new pumps is going to be a costly recall.

Hagens Berman: Fiat Chrysler Recalls 250,000 Heavy-Duty Dodge Ram Trucks Amid CP4 Pump Defect and Lawsuit