Pole building foundation question

   / Pole building foundation question #51  
The vertical posts (some builders use 6x6s, others use multiple 2x6 boards screwed together in a laminated fashion) are anchored to steel brackets set in the concrete foundation. So, the attachment method is quite secure.

True, I will already have a foundation, but stick framing on top of that would still cost more. More overall volume of wood is required, and the labor cost/time required to construct is higher.

I don't care for the idea of putting wooden poles directly into the ground. Yes, it would be cheaper and probably even last for a while, but they will eventually rot.

I do have a smaller 24x32 workshop/garage that is stick built, and I'm quite happy with that. However, almost anyone around here putting up a large-ish or tall-ish building without interior walls, such as a warehouse, garage, retail space, etc. uses either wood post-frame or steel beam construction.
Are you finishing the inside of the building? If so...it's actually less wood to stick build it.

And what is the truss spacing? I'd you plan 2' or 4' oc trusses and set posts now you have the extra expense of a header out of 2x10 or 2x12's. Stick built wall....no header needed.

You do add the cost of some sheeting on the outside.
 
   / Pole building foundation question #52  
Are you finishing the inside of the building? If so...it's actually less wood to stick build it.

And what is the truss spacing? I'd you plan 2' or 4' oc trusses and set posts now you have the extra expense of a header out of 2x10 or 2x12's. Stick built wall....no header needed.

You do add the cost of some sheeting on the outside.
My shop uses 4ft trusses, finished inside, stick built. My builders assured me it was cheaper to do so.
 
   / Pole building foundation question #53  
My shop uses 4ft trusses, finished inside, stick built. My builders assured me it was cheaper to do so.
There are literally dozens of ways to build a shop/garage/barn. And I wouldnt say any one way is better than the next. And cost all comes down to the cost of the building materials AT THE TIME of purchase.

There are SO many variables....and they are all interconnected. Change ONE variable....and it changes ALOT.

Stickbuilt requires a foundation or a monolithic pour. That adds cost and so does sheeting before the metal goes on. But you save the expense of treated posts and post holes.

Another variable is 4' vs 8' OC trusses. IF you are building a barn that is 64' long, that will take 17 trusses at 4' OC. Those trusses are likely gonna be ~$150ea for a 32' or so span. Thats almost $5000 in trusses, then you need a double 2x12 header. And 2x12 lumber aint cheap.

Jump that to 8' trusses and set them right on the posts. Only need half as many trusses (9)....and they are more expensive but not double. Like maybe $225ea. So only about $2000 in trusses. You also dont need the 2x12's for headers. But now you add complexity for the purlins standing on edge. Either hangers....or blocking....or long spikes driven by hand which adds significant time and labor (cost to build). Then there are 10' or 12' OC posts and trusses. Cheaper yet for just the trusses, but now 2x6 purlins on edge and definitely need hangers...so there is that added cost.

For walls, you can use 2x4 girts nailed on the outside of the posts and the building goes up quick. But then you have to do the same thing on the inside if you plan on finishing. Another option is 2x6's laid flat between posts (like a stud wall only horizonntal). Takes more time to frame up the initial shell, but that pays dividends in the long run because you are already ready to finish the interior. And actually, a single 2x6 is cheaper than TWO 2x4's (one inside and one outside).

Again, dozens of ways to build. None are really better than the next. Because there is always a tradeoff.

But dozens of buildings I have designed and laid out either for myself or for friends/family....cost was never really a factor. Because on a building with $30k of material (finished and concreted)....the difference between posts vs monolithic vs footer/block wall, and 4', 8', 12' OC trusses is rarely more than a few hundred bucks at the end of the day.

In reality, the decision on "how" to build has came down to Labor, equipment, and time at hand. Trying to get a shell of a building up before winter sets in it might be best to bang the wall girts up on the outside and deal with the inside later vs 2x6's horizontal between posts. Or not having the skill or time to lay block or equipment to dig footer so setting posts might be the best.

When I built my 40x72 shop....I had a backhoe and a post hole digger. The price of the block and concrete for a footer (I know how to lay block and have backhoe to dig footer) was darn near identical to the cost of treated posts and a header all the way around the building. IT took more labor to build my building, but didnt cost any more money to lay a 6-course block foundation and then build the walls in 16' long sections and sit upon the wall.

Like I said, lots of ways to build and I wouldnt call any of them "wrong" ways. BUT, using posts AND a monolithic pour dont make sense to me. only thing I see it saving is the sheeting because you can now put horizontal girts for the metal....and maybe that makes sense with current prices. Gotta adapt to the lumber market I guess
 
   / Pole building foundation question #54  
The vertical posts (some builders use 6x6s, others use multiple 2x6 boards screwed together in a laminated fashion) are anchored to steel brackets set in the concrete foundation. So, the attachment method is quite secure.

True, I will already have a foundation, but stick framing on top of that would still cost more. More overall volume of wood is required, and the labor cost/time required to construct is higher.

I don't care for the idea of putting wooden poles directly into the ground. Yes, it would be cheaper and probably even last for a while, but they will eventually rot.

I do have a smaller 24x32 workshop/garage that is stick built, and I'm quite happy with that. However, almost anyone around here putting up a large-ish or tall-ish building without interior walls, such as a warehouse, garage, retail space, etc. uses either wood post-frame or steel beam construction.
Sounds like you are pretty set on your plan. Which, I am sure, will result in an excellent and robust structure! Good luck moving forward and remember to share lots of pics here.

So are you sure you will never finish the interior of the building? Storage only?
 
   / Pole building foundation question #55  
There are literally dozens of ways to build a shop/garage/barn. And I wouldnt say any one way is better than the next. And cost all comes down to the cost of the building materials AT THE TIME of purchase.

There are SO many variables....and they are all interconnected. Change ONE variable....and it changes ALOT.

Stickbuilt requires a foundation or a monolithic pour. That adds cost and so does sheeting before the metal goes on. But you save the expense of treated posts and post holes.

Another variable is 4' vs 8' OC trusses. IF you are building a barn that is 64' long, that will take 17 trusses at 4' OC. Those trusses are likely gonna be ~$150ea for a 32' or so span. Thats almost $5000 in trusses, then you need a double 2x12 header. And 2x12 lumber aint cheap.

Jump that to 8' trusses and set them right on the posts. Only need half as many trusses (9)....and they are more expensive but not double. Like maybe $225ea. So only about $2000 in trusses. You also dont need the 2x12's for headers. But now you add complexity for the purlins standing on edge. Either hangers....or blocking....or long spikes driven by hand which adds significant time and labor (cost to build). Then there are 10' or 12' OC posts and trusses. Cheaper yet for just the trusses, but now 2x6 purlins on edge and definitely need hangers...so there is that added cost.

For walls, you can use 2x4 girts nailed on the outside of the posts and the building goes up quick. But then you have to do the same thing on the inside if you plan on finishing. Another option is 2x6's laid flat between posts (like a stud wall only horizonntal). Takes more time to frame up the initial shell, but that pays dividends in the long run because you are already ready to finish the interior. And actually, a single 2x6 is cheaper than TWO 2x4's (one inside and one outside).

Again, dozens of ways to build. None are really better than the next. Because there is always a tradeoff.

But dozens of buildings I have designed and laid out either for myself or for friends/family....cost was never really a factor. Because on a building with $30k of material (finished and concreted)....the difference between posts vs monolithic vs footer/block wall, and 4', 8', 12' OC trusses is rarely more than a few hundred bucks at the end of the day.

In reality, the decision on "how" to build has came down to Labor, equipment, and time at hand. Trying to get a shell of a building up before winter sets in it might be best to bang the wall girts up on the outside and deal with the inside later vs 2x6's horizontal between posts. Or not having the skill or time to lay block or equipment to dig footer so setting posts might be the best.

When I built my 40x72 shop....I had a backhoe and a post hole digger. The price of the block and concrete for a footer (I know how to lay block and have backhoe to dig footer) was darn near identical to the cost of treated posts and a header all the way around the building. IT took more labor to build my building, but didnt cost any more money to lay a 6-course block foundation and then build the walls in 16' long sections and sit upon the wall.

Like I said, lots of ways to build and I wouldnt call any of them "wrong" ways. BUT, using posts AND a monolithic pour dont make sense to me. only thing I see it saving is the sheeting because you can now put horizontal girts for the metal....and maybe that makes sense with current prices. Gotta adapt to the lumber market I guess



Sounds like you are pretty set on your plan. Which, I am sure, will result in an excellent and robust structure! Good luck moving forward and remember to share lots of pics here.

So are you sure you will never finish the interior of the building? Storage only?



The vertical posts (some builders use 6x6s, others use multiple 2x6 boards screwed together in a laminated fashion) are anchored to steel brackets set in the concrete foundation. So, the attachment method is quite secure.


That's the method Morton Building uses for their structures. All wall column supports are three boards of 2x6 bolted to pre-drilled steel brackets, which are anchored by bolts embedded into the foundation just at the very end of the concrete pour. They are typically using 1/2" x 8" bolts, embedded leaving 2" of the bolt threads exposed. Two bolts per bracket. So 30 wall columns require 60 bolts anchored into the concrete, taking about 10mins to position all 60 bolts. Then the slab is powered trowled and finished.

Approximately, 30 days later you come back and place the brackets into position using a washer and double nuts per bolt. Be advised, some bolts do misalign during the curing, so a few brackets may require slight re-drill of the holes.

Morton building claims this process allows them to warranty buildings to 120mph winds. Morton found that using mutiple 2x6's are 20% stronger than a single 6x6's for the wall columns. At no point are these wall columns in contact with the soil or concrete. They are in contact with a predrilled and painted steel bracket. Let me post a picture of these columns and brackets from an actual Morton building. I will do that picture post tomorrow.
 
   / Pole building foundation question #56  
That's the method Morton Building uses for their structures. All wall column supports are three boards of 2x6 bolted to pre-drilled steel brackets, which are anchored by bolts embedded into the foundation just at the very end of the concrete pour. They are typically using 1/2" x 8" bolts, embedded leaving 2" of the bolt threads exposed. Two bolts per bracket. So 30 wall columns require 60 bolts anchored into the concrete, taking about 10mins to position all 60 bolts. Then the slab is powered trowled and finished.

Approximately, 30 days later you come back and place the brackets into position using a washer and double nuts per bolt. Be advised, some bolts do misalign during the curing, so a few brackets may require slight re-drill of the holes.

Morton building claims this process allows them to warranty buildings to 120mph winds. Morton found that using mutiple 2x6's are 20% stronger than a single 6x6's for the wall columns. At no point are these wall columns in contact with the soil or concrete. They are in contact with a predrilled and painted steel bracket. Let me post a picture of these columns and brackets from an actual Morton building. I will do that picture post tomorrow.
Morton doesn't (or didn't) always do that.

Laminated 2x6 posts....sure. that was always a staple of their building.

But I can show you DOZENS of their buildings built in the last 3 decades with those posts imbedded in the dirt
 
   / Pole building foundation question #57  
Todate, I have not seen a Morton Building without a concrete foundation. But I must admit, I have only looked at less than 15 Morton buildings in my area of Texas. The attached pictures show how they mount the wall columns onto the concrete foundation.

View attachment 724375View attachment 724376
20211209_120820.jpg
 
   / Pole building foundation question #58  
Many Morton buildings do not get a poured floor, dirt, gravel or whatever is cheap.
They will have the poles (sandwiched 2 x 6 or 8's) set in the ground.
 

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