Should we upgrade for 5 HP? Same model same options ... Hmmmm....

[DonaldP]

We are at an interesting point in time, with the demand for used Tractors up, and thinking that we may want to just make a slight change ... would it possibly pan out to Trade our almost pristine Kubota Grand L3560 HSTC Cab with an L805 Loader and BH92 Backhoe for an L4060 with the same accoutrements???

Can we Trade or sell the L3560 and still be happy?

I received an email from a Kubota Dealer that said that they can only sell a tractor brought in on trade within specified range based on its condition, but that I could get a "Lot more from an open market sale rather than trading it in". Hmmm so are there any dealers out there that want to chime in on this condition that Kubota may be holding their dealers to - with respect to trade in values offered within a Sellers market?

On the other side of things, there is a lot that goes into deciding to sell or trade your tractor, especially if its a unit that you have been extremely happy with and have taken extreme care of.

We used a 72" King Kutter finish mower that we rebuilt for the first time this year on the Tractor, and although it doesn't struggle, it seems to us that for a 72" mowing implement while driving up a hill, the tractor drags a bit.

Not an issue overall... but still, if we can feel better about a bit more HP without sacrificing much more in the weight of the tractor on turf (the 4060 is about 250 pounds heavier than the 3560), we would be probably be happier.

The 3560 is a 3 cylinder while the 4060 is a 4 cylinder. We wonder if we would increase fuel usage appreciably on the 4060 due to the added cylinder even though its only 5 HP more in size...? Is a 4 cylinder going to have a noticeable impact on torque and the other behaviors of the system... (Backhoe, Grapple, Bucket) considering everything else is going to be the same...

The physical characteristics of the 4060 are negligible sans the additional 4 to 6 inches in length and the additional weight.

One caveat...

On the L3560 I had issues with the tire hitting the front Lower Loader Mount when turning and under load. The 4060 is 4 to 6" longer to compensate for the 4 cylinder over the 3 cyl model 3560. (you can see the distance difference between the back of the hood at the windshield, to the opening for the engine compartment in the sheet metal that makes up the hood. My guess is the front lower Frame assembly is the same length, but the engine assembly mounted to the transmission is the difference in length. Therefore the axel is probably moved forward away from the FEL lower mount, and that would totally alleviate any issues with interference of the tire and the Lower FEL on either side of the tractor...

Should we upgrade?

 

[SDT]

Kubota does not and cannot control independent dealer sell/trade pricing.

One always gets burned when trading relatively new equipment.

SDT

 

[DonaldP]

Kubota does not and cannot control independent dealer sell/trade pricing.

One always gets burned when trading relatively new equipment.

SDT

That's probably true... and I can smell that misfortune about my dealings at this point.

But also know its a part of the deal. Maybe if I can break even after putting 470 hours on the machine it could still be a win for me. So 470 hours divided by 24 is about 20 days rental. At $400/day that's $8,000. If I took an $8000 hit i would still be good but that may be a pipe dream...

 

[Torvy]

One always gets 'burned' when trading because dealers have to cover expenses related to preparing and marketing the used tractor for sale. They also deserve to earn profits that can feed their families.

Private sales are better for cash, but riskier for both parties. Like many things, it comes down to risk tolerance.

 

[DonaldP]

Kubota does not and cannot control independent dealer sell/trade pricing.

One always gets burned when trading relatively new equipment.

SDT

I may have deduced that as a dealer they were following Kubota's recommendations over a dealer goal or objective... I apologize. These are the exact words :

Good afternoon,
Sorry for the delayed response. We do not currently have a L4060 Cab available. The outlook on availability for one of those is not great. You could trade in towards it but right now you are much better off selling outright just for the fact that people are getting a lot more on the open market then we can allow. I started watching your video and then got caught up in some work but I plan to revisit this in the next few days. I do not currently have any buyers in line for a used 35hp tractor. Before trying to sell yours I would make sure you have a replacement lined up.

Does this mean that regardless as to what a dealer would "pay out" for a used tractor in excellent condition on a trade, they would still sell it for what the market would bear?

How would that pan out?

If I wanted to purchase a used Tractor today from the same dealership, would I pay the going rate that someone would offer that might be higher than the retail due to limited availability, or would I pay some lower $ amount (as it would be in their statement of "more than we could allow").

Hmmm.

 

[DonaldP]

One always gets 'burned' when trading because dealers have to cover expenses related to preparing and marketing the used tractor for sale. They also deserve to earn profits that can feed their families.

Private sales are better for cash, but riskier for both parties. Like many things, it comes down to risk tolerance.

No question about that... profit is the name of the game. It happens in everything. I understand that, and I'm fine with it. but there is a point where there is a trade off between profit and preventing a customer from acheiving his goal of moving into a different machine.

Its not a "have to do thing", but "churning" - moving a product at less than typical markup especially in the slow moving inventory of today isn't all that bad either. It keeps product moving and keeps people busy even if it may not allow the owner to retire off of my trading experience.

 

[DonaldP]

Kubota does not and cannot control independent dealer sell/trade pricing.

One always gets burned when trading relatively new equipment.

SDT

And at what period does relatively new drop into the relatively traded category? 1000 hours, 2000 hours 3 years, 6 years?

 

[DonaldP]

And at what period does relatively new drop into the relatively traded category? 1000 hours, 2000 hours 3 years, 6 years?

I appreciate your knowledge and experience here !!! I hope I'm not sounding condescending, just asking questions to help make decisions... Thanks so much!!!.

 

[s219]

Tractors are usually not referenced by year, so you ought to drop this notion of "2020", especially since that could hurt you. 470 hours is a pretty high amount of usage for a "2020" tractor in that market. In the lifetime of a Kubota, 470 hours is not a big deal at all, they should go at least 5000 hours before work is needed, but when you compare to typical hobby-farmer buyers of a L3560 and what they will put on a tractor, 470 is high for a tractor labeled as a "2020".

The recent model used tractors that sell for a hot price are ones with low hours that are "practically new" in the eyes of a buyer -- they are no-brainer alternatives to buying new and command new prices. At 470 hours, I think you are well past that honeymoon stage.

Have you sat on a 4060 and driven one? It is a much larger tractor with a completely different frame (shared with the larger Grand L models). When I was shopping all these tractors the L4060 was noticeably bigger than the L3560 when side by side and when driving them. Both great tractors but noticeably different in size.

 

[number two]

After watching the video,if I was wanting what you were selling,I'd be all over it!
Good Luck in your quest!

 

[CalG]

If you want to trade UP for more performance. Do your calculations by the POUND.

HP really doesn't matter unless you are in some sort of hurry running some sort of powered attachment (like a baler)

 

[DonaldP]

Tractors are usually not referenced by year, so you ought to drop this notion of "2020", especially since that could hurt you. 470 hours is a pretty high amount of usage for a "2020" tractor in that market. In the lifetime of a Kubota, 470 hours is not a big deal at all, they should go at least 5000 hours before work is needed, but when you compare to typical hobby-farmer buyers of a L3560 and what they will put on a tractor, 470 is high for a tractor labeled as a "2020".

The recent model used tractors that sell for a hot price are ones with low hours that are "practically new" in the eyes of a buyer -- they are no-brainer alternatives to buying new and command new prices. At 470 hours, I think you are well past that honeymoon stage.

Have you sat on a 4060 and driven one? It is a much larger tractor with a completely different frame (shared with the larger Grand L models). When I was shopping all these tractors the L4060 was noticeably bigger than the L3560 when side by side and when driving them. Both great tractors but noticeably different in size.

Wonderfully put!!!
Great comments and viewpoints. Just what I need to make a decision.

 

[DonaldP]

If you want to trade UP for more performance. Do your calculations by the POUND.

HP really doesn't matter unless you are in some sort of hurry running some sort of powered attachment (like a baler)

I hear you!!! I’d get a bit more weight and some width increase with minimal height increase, so for ground contact … it looks like the l4060 would beat out the 3560 as far as center of gravity being lower and therefore giving more stability in the environment I’m using it on… 6” longer and 4 to 5 inches wider creates a larger overall footprint.

 

[diesel466]

If you are in a state that collects sales tax, you have to factor that in, in my state you pay tax on the difference between trade in and selling price. In my case that's 8% more. something to think about.

 

[MHarryE]

I know I could get a lot more for my L6060 with several extras than my dealer offered for trade but I am the world’s worst negotiator (according to my wife) so there was no doubt I’d accept the dealers’s offer. One of the principals said they sell all over the country because theirs is a low transaction price area and they do better selling country wide. My last trade their (Wisconsin) ended up in North Carolina). So the dealer needs to repair my neglect so it looks pretty, stand the shipping (why his prices always say “call for price”), and make a profit. Also, dealers who stay in business stand behind early problems while if I sell it is as is. I remember buying a hay binge from a Craig’s List ad - it self destructed at less than 30 acres. The money totally gone. I still needed one so I found one at a dealer 500 miles away. It was well used but dealer went over it, explained it’s history and assured me I would not be left holding the bag. Paid 50% more but it just finished its 3rd season.

 

[jyoutz]

Maybe consider just getting a 60” cutter? A 72” cutter is pretty large for a 35hp tractor.

 

[DonaldP]

Maybe consider just getting a 60” cutter? A 72” cutter is pretty large for a 35hp tractor.

I definitely get the picture there! I believe you’re thinking outside the box on this for sure. I suppose dropping down a size on the implements might be o e the best suggestions yet. Maybe most folks (me included) seem to want to answer these type of questions with simply adding more power. And while it may be the simplest in principal, who says taking a more conservative approach wouldn’t be just as fruitful.

 

[DonaldP]

Maybe consider just getting a 60” cutter? A 72” cutter is pretty large for a 35hp tractor.

I would add that the tractor still is within the manufactures warranty for another 6 months… and I’m not sure about transferability… but if I purchased an additional 2 years of extended warranty and it followed the tractor then that would seem to be a pretty good reason to purchase this unit over some other similarly priced unit.

 

[jeff9366]

it looks like the l4060 would beat out the 3560 as far as center of gravity being lower and therefore giving more stability in the environment I’m using it on… 6” longer and 4 to 5 inches wider creates a larger overall footprint.

1. The cab option raises the center-of-gravity.

2. If you have liquid filled tires or wheel weights discard them. The cab weight will provide ample traction without the wheel weight. There is only so much 35-horsepower can do.

3. The L3560 has adjustable rear tire spreads with both R1 and R4 tires. Increase the wheel spread of your rear wheels 4" to 6" for increased stability. Rear wheel width is more important for increasing operating stability than ballasted rear tires.

If instability is a real concern, and mowing is your key application, trade in the Kubota for a Toro Ventrac.

VENTRAC VIDEOS: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ventrac

TRACTOR STABILITY: Prospective purchase for the mountains.




On the L3560 I had issues with the tire hitting the front Lower Loader Mount when turning and under load.

What tires are on the front of the L3560? Are the tires a factory option?
Are existing front tires correctly inflated?

 

[jeff9366]

I hear you!!! I’d get a bit more weight and some width increase with minimal height increase.

It takes a 50% increase in (Three Point Hitch) bare tractor weight before you notice a discernible increase in tractor capability. You would need to move from a Grand L t to a Kubota 'M' for weight to make a difference you will feel.