DPF Regeneration driving me crazy...

[Number15]

Wow... just wow...

Sorry but when this subject comes up in the shop I always get accused of being a greenie (as an insult). Which I guess I am in a way, but I see that line was unnecessary. Sometimes I type without thinking I edited my post

 

[jyoutz]

Sorry but when this subject comes up in the shop I always get accused of being a greenie (as an insult). Which I guess I am in a way, but I see that line was unnecessary. Sometimes I type without thinking I edited my post

Nothing wrong with being a tree hugger. As a professional forester, I have hugged many trees while measuring their diameter during timber cruises.

 

[Number15]

Nothing wrong with being a tree hugger. As a professional forester, I have hugged many trees while measuring their diameter during timber cruises.

Yeah I like nature and stuff, but the political line and insult from me was unnecessary. I'm gonna hug a tree tomorrow so I can say I am one as well though I'm sure my experience will be different than yours LOL

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Just had a tech come down and help me with some baler electronics issues.
He told me far and away, they spend more time fixing DEF/DPF issues on tractors than anything else. Thats ridiculous that after 10 years they can’t make the DPF/DEF a more reliable system.

Might be fine for you since you don’t use a tractor to make a living, but it’s not fine for those who do. Its a major inconvenience and loss of money to be down for hours. It can become days if the parts you need are unavailable, as they can be in todays parts-shortage-USA we now live in.

I have no problem with making tractors burn cleaner, but can’t they make it reliable? Why not have twin sensors, so when one fails, there’s a backup? Or make them easily accessible and give the owner spares? Or just build them better in the first place, so less expense in downtime & parts?

Say it isn't so, many on here will tell you it's a myth, there are near zero issues with this Tier 4 business, I would put more faith in what the tractor mechanic that works on them day in and day out has to say about it, he knows what he sees everyday,I'm afraid a few of these folks on here live in disney land where only good things happen and Tier 4 tractors never have problems.

 

[Hay Dude]

Say it isn't so, many on here will tell you it's a myth, there are near zero issues with this Tier 4 business, I would put more faith in what the tractor mechanic that works on them day in and day out has to say about it, he knows what he sees everyday,I'm afraid a few of these folks on here live in disney land where only good things happen and Tier 4 tractors never have problems.

And if they did, it wouldnt leave the anger that it would on someone who has a truck or tractor down for expensive repairs and income lost with customers.

 

[Number15]

I don't think the reasonable people are saying there are no issues. Stuff breaks, new tech has growing pains and stuff is expensive.
I know how it feels to have very expensive stuff break, it stinks, but the sky is not falling.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

And if they did, it wouldnt leave the anger that it would on someone who has a truck or tractor down for expensive repairs and income lost with customers.

Absolutely, when it affects you directly it puts a whole different perspective on things.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I don't think the reasonable people are saying there are no issues. Stuff breaks, new tech has growing pains and stuff is expensive.
I know how it feels to have very expensive stuff break, it stinks, but the sky is not falling.

I wouldn't call something that has been in effect for 10+ years new tech.

 

[Number15]

I wouldn't call something that has been in effect for 10+ years new tech.

I understand, what I am saying is that the tech is getting better. Early systems had way more failures than new ones. They are getting it better all the time. If they don't keep moving the goalpost it will get solid. I mean ICE is over 100 years old and they still have failures. There will never be a system that is failure free, but they will stop making failure prone systems as they get experience.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don't think the reasonable people are saying there are no issues. Stuff breaks, new tech has growing pains and stuff is expensive.
I know how it feels to have very expensive stuff break, it stinks, but the sky is not falling.

It’s not “new”.
DPF’s are on their 14th year.
DEF is on it’s 11th year.

That is NOT new technology. Never said “sky is falling”. I actually said I’m all for it. What I wish these clowns that force this crap on us would do is give manufacturers time to make it right before we guinea pig it while trying to put food on the table.

 

[jyoutz]

Say it isn't so, many on here will tell you it's a myth, there are near zero issues with this Tier 4 business, I would put more faith in what the tractor mechanic that works on them day in and day out has to say about it, he knows what he sees everyday,I'm afraid a few of these folks on here live in disney land where only good things happen and Tier 4 tractors never have problems.

All mechanical thing have problems. Nobody is saying that tier 4 emission systems don’t occasionally fail. But it’s not like everyone experiences this and not frequently. I had problems on my old vehicles with carburetors. I have far less issues with newer vehicles with ecm operated fuel injection systems. All things fail occasionally, but the tier 4 systems have been designed to work pretty well and they do for most people.

 

[Number15]

It’s not “new”.
DPF’s are on their 14th year.
DEF is on it’s 11th year.

That is NOT new technology. Never said “sky is falling”. I actually said I’m all for it. What I wish these clowns that force this crap on us would do is give manufacturers time to make it right before we guinea pig it while trying to put food on the table.

I meant new as compared to the time that ICE engines have been used. It was a poor word choice. ICE evolved over 100 years, this stuff is barely over 10.

 

[Number15]

Also I get it, farmers have a lot more at stake than home owners and hobbyists. Down time is money.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

All mechanical thing have problems. Nobody is saying that tier 4 emission systems don’t occasionally fail. But it’s not like everyone experiences this and not frequently. I had problems on my old vehicles with carburetors. I have far less issues with newer vehicles with ecm operated fuel injection systems. All things fail occasionally, but the tier 4 systems have been designed to work pretty well and they do for most people.

So you say, a lot of diesel and tractor mechanics say different, most vehicles with carbs could be worked on and repaired right there in the barn yard, jump on one of these tier 4 tractors when they go down, you won't most likely because we can't, but that's not my issue, my experience's with tier 4 has not been as favorable as most of yours, personal experience is generally what we base our opinions on, I understand why if you own 1 tier 4 tractor and haven't had trouble that would be a reason to buy into how good they are, if it doesn't affect you it's harder to see, and trust me people that use a tractor to farm with understand that mechanical things have problems, we work on them regularly.

 

[Hay Dude]

Also I get it, farmers have a lot more at stake than home owners and hobbyists. Down time is money.

it aint just farmers. Its excavators, tree companies, landscapers, construction companies, trucking companies and more.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Also I get it, farmers have a lot more at stake than home owners and hobbyists. Down time is money.

You are right it does affect the man trying to make a living with it more than most, to him his livelihood is in the field to some it's just a slight inconvienance that they didn't get their 15 minutes away from their wife tractor time.

 

[jyoutz]

So you say, a lot of diesel and tractor mechanics say different, most vehicles with carbs could be worked on and repaired right there in the barn yard, jump on one of these tier 4 tractors when they go down, you won't most likely because we can't, but that's not my issue, my experience's with tier 4 has not been as favorable as most of yours, personal experience is generally what we base our opinions on, I understand why if you own 1 tier 4 tractor and haven't had trouble that would be a reason to buy into how good they are, if it doesn't affect you it's harder to see, and trust me people that use a tractor to farm with understand that mechanical things have problems, we work on them regularly.

I like newer vehicles and newer tractors. Your mileage may vary. Plenty of older iron out there for sale if you prefer that. And yes, I’ve rebuilt several older vehicle carburetors on my work bench. I’ve not yet had an ecm fuel injection issue. When or if I do, it will be towed to a shop, but newer vehicles are still far more reliable. I also remember changing plugs, points and condensers every 25k miles. Yeah, no thanks. I’m glad those days are over.

 

[Number15]

it aint just farmers. Its excavators, tree companies, landscapers, construction companies, trucking companies and more.

Next time I'll list out every possible industry that uses a diesel engine so you can know I get a point.
I'm just glad I was in in career that never had to deal with any issues as crippling as these jeez (sarcasm so ppl don't lose their minds)

 

[Hay Dude]

I like newer vehicles and newer tractors. Your mileage may vary. Plenty of older iron out there for sale if you prefer that. And yes, I’ve rebuilt several older vehicle carburetors on my work bench. I’ve not yet had an ecm fuel injection issue. When or if I do, it will be towed to a shop, but newer vehicles are still far more reliable. I also remember changing plugs, points and condensers every 25k miles. Yeah, no thanks. I’m glad those days are over.

Your comparison doesnt work.
We are talking about diesel engines, gas engines (in your carburetor example) dont have DPF/DEF.

So let’s keep it on diesels and set aside pollution controls for a moment…

Newer common rail diesel vehicles & tractors have evolved into more reliable machines in some aspects for the operator, not the mechanic. Computer controlled common rail diesel fuel injection systems are much more expensive to fix when it breaks. The injectors cost more and the pump costs more. The CAPS pump on my Cummins powered tractor is $5,000. An old school mechanical pump was much less. The injectors are much more expensive, too. So would you rather have a computer controlled diesel that runs a bit better & more efficient but costs a fortune to fix, or a simple mechanical diesel that is cheaply & easily fixed?

Now again, staying with diesel engines, add pollution after-treatment equipment. It simply MUST be less reliable by the addition of more sensors, wires, computers and wear parts. It simply cannot be more reliable unless additional advances, separate from the DEF/DPF, were made.
Although common rail is better at cold starting, it is not enough additional reliability to make up for the additional problems caused by DEF/DPF sensor and related failure.

I actually like the newer diesels, but they are shockingly complex and hard to fix without a great deal of backround education in diesel technology or expense.

And BTW- “older iron” does NOT work in some states now. CA has banned older diesel engines. Other states are following.

 

[Hay Dude]

Next time I'll list out every possible industry that uses a diesel engine so you can know I get a point.
I'm just glad I was in in career that never had to deal with any issues as crippling as these jeez (sarcasm so ppl don't lose their minds)

You dont have to do that. We already know. It seems like you were the one who thought it only applied to one industry.
You are right in that you should be glad you work in an industry that hasn’t had to deal with any issues as crippling as these. It sucks when a 1/4 million dollar truck sits alongside the road waiting for a DPF/DEF sensor.
Nearly every product you eat, wear or use was created and shipped by diesel engines. If they are mandated to have complex computer controlled after treatment systems, you pay for them. The costs are passed to the consumer.
It’s the norm now, but we still like to complain about it.