Today, would you buy an EV vehicle.

[Snobdds]

V2G and G2V are just one part of a decentralized and interconnected grid that would make trying to "build our way out of" the possible power pinch unneeded.

Backflowing the grid is a point of contention between solar owners and power grids. On one hand it sounds great, the other hand is saying don't forget the details.

The solar owners want to sell back at the same rate they pay for the power. The grid owner(s) give you a fraction on the rate as the difference is transmission cost that do cost the grid owners lots of money to maintain.

The grid owners don't want power backflowing the grid if the power is down. You can kill line men and have uncontrolled power backfeeding with decentralized transfer switches. Lots of houses have manual switches.

So there is a giant brick wall to this "decentralized and interconnected" grid from companies whose profits and growth depend on providing power. Do you think they're going to willing dilute their profits so some guy with a battery bank can compete with them?

 

[ljjhouser]

So what will you do with it after 6 to 7 years. No one will buy a used electric vehicle that basically needs a battery that cost more than is worth. And try to take it to a junkyard and see how fast they turn you away...hmmm

Me personally, that is not a concern. That is only one concern about buying EV. The numbers simply don't add up for me and EV. To me, the comparisoin tests all have so many conditions to make EV "look like" a viable option. But I feel like, like saying it will go 400 miles. Weight of vehicle, trailer load (When I pull my tractor, it is 10K#), even the direction of the wind will change that number. There are a lot of unsolved problems still. I bought a new truck last year - 2021. Will not be ready to look at any for a while.

ANd you are right. Is the used EV going to be worth a battery refit?. Or is even going to be worth much trade- in value to the dealer. Hard to say. Someone posted a picture of a gas generator plugged in to a EV to charge it. I laughed. But that is another real problem - driving and then finding place to charge it.

I saw and article about a guy that needed a rental car and rented a Tesla. He drove it until he had to charge it, then, as planned, stopped at a public charging place. Then he discovered that the tesla would not fit the plug. There was supposed to be an adaptor if you were not using a Tesla charger. Appartently, he thought could make to another charging option. Then it ran out and quit on the highway. He got out of the car, and (I guess) the car locks when no longer drivable. Hitched a ride to find help. When he got back, someone had used a crowbar to pry open a door. Needless to say, the car owner was not happy.

I could just see me sitting beside the highway in a lawn chair trying to figure out what to do.

 

[Roric]

I am (painfully) aware of the power companies' impeding the alternate power, (solar etc.) deployment.
Alas, the in place public utility monopolies cannot be fixed in a forum like this.
The race would be won by putting legislation in place that would make the decentralization and interconnected future a reality.
Funny, Japan and other countries can do it. The European union is mile ahead too.
So much for 'American Exceptionalism.

 

[ljjhouser]

I have had both early Prius with regeneration and Mrs. currently drives a plug-in that marries the regeneration technology with limited EV. Get about 30 miles of pure EV on a full charge. Great for running to the store or short commutes. Once you drain the EV, you still have a regenerative hybrid with 500 miles+ of range and 50+ mpg. Toyota is the recognized leader in hybrid technology and some of the domestic push for pure EV comes from the 'US' nameplates and associated unions to get around Toyota dominance.

If I considered EV, it would have to be hybrid with the option to continue.

The Prius has been here a long time now and the rebuilt or replacement batteries I think are somewhat reasonable (maybe around $3500). They are too small for me because of my load hauling needs. But I think Toyota had made a footprint in the path to EV.

By the way, I saw a video about how the Prius transmission works in transferring power from gas or electric and charging. It is a work of art mechanically.

 

[Snobdds]

I am (painfully) aware of the power companies' impeding the alternate power, (solar etc.) deployment.
Alas, the in place public utility monopolies cannot be fixed in a forum like this.
The race would be won by putting legislation in place that would make the decentralization and interconnected future a reality.
Funny, Japan and other countries can do it. The European union is mile ahead too.
So much for 'American Exceptionalism.

There is not one public utility monopoly in the US. Every utility is owned and governed by a joint powers board where both company and state stake holders make recommendations to a utility commission. The commission then decides on everything from capital expenditures to rate increases. Your concept of decentralized needs to understand how things are done, as it's not a free market where utilities are concerned.

I have my doubts about Japan and the EU. You have any links on this? My doubts stem from converting DC back into AC at a considerable conversion loss on an already slim margin of excess supply.

 

[JasperFrank]

Having been to Europe a few times, I think these are very different worlds than the USA. In other words they are entirely different environments. Folks that are dead set on pure EV conversion, are using Europe as a model. When I look at a map of England or France for instance, I have to remind my self that the scale of the map is much smaller than most maps of the USA.

It seems that the writers of articles that want EV conversion have never explored just how vast the USA is: Especially were I live on the West Coast. Hybrids are workable, but pure EVs are not. For instance, if I wanted a camping Vacation from Eugene to Imnaha, and explore Hat Point Road, I couldn't do that in an EV. Or even go down coast to the Cal boarder and back on 101. Cause I would have to have faith that those few charging stations were actually working with salty air. And if they were, whats the charge price if there is no other competition to make the price reasonable. I have run out of gas several times using gas vehicles. And sometimes in the middle of no where. Thumb on the road, with a gas can, that I could bring back and get going again. With compensation to the good person that picked me up, or would siphon a few gallons: And it always worked. With EVs, I can't do that. There isn't a standard to transfer Car to Car, or the ability for me to carry electricity. You are on you own with an EV to travel island to island to get a charge.

Makes sense in Europe were the next charging station is never more than 16 miles away.

Insurance companies are also a fly in the oil, in that if I wanted to buy a pure EV, just for commuting, I pay a whole policy on that other vehicle. Since the insurance companies eliminated fleet rates in my state for private citizens. And I can't drive two vehicles at the same time. Adding an EV car, on my policies, would kill off any savings from a gas vehicle even if I could charge it using PV panels.

 

[Roric]

There is not one public utility monopoly in the US. Every utility is owned and governed by a joint powers board where both company and state stake holders make recommendations to a utility commission. The commission then decides on everything from capital expenditures to rate increases. Your concept of decentralized needs to understand how things are done, as it's not a free market where utilities are concerned.

I have my doubts about Japan and the EU. You have any links on this? My doubts stem from converting DC back into AC at a considerable conversion loss on an already slim margin of excess supply.

The inverters today are pretty efficient. Mine has a maximum inverter efficiency rating
of 99.2%. A CEC weighted efficiency of 99% (The thing satisfies all grid connection
standards, has anti-islanding, utility monitoring, GFDI and arc fault provisions.
It appears that it also even corrects power factor when sending power to the grid.)
All in a box about 18" x 18".

When I did my research, I used 96% for my inverter calculations

I am sure that distributed energy sources (inverters) don't have the voltage drop losses and transformer losses that the grid has.

MISO, the entity that does oversees power for the midwest, is already 'skittish' about
power distribution this summer. After that doesn't look so good either.

That is why I put forth the idea of G2V/V2G. With coal and nuclear generation being
mothballed and wind and solar cheaper than any other deployment it would make sense to
put a plan in place to fortify our weakening grid with battery back-up.
Wind and solar are being put in a position that they have to work and now.
Vehicle to grid can be part of it.
Until we each have a fuel cell in our back yard we may want to make what we have work
better.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's usually the way things work... United States pioneers and takes the risk and Europe and others see the way the wind blows and refine often to the next level...

When GM and Toyota started EV my Euro friends said it's a no starter because of winter cold and snow...

Fast forward and now Europe is all in so it seems.

 

[JasperFrank]

It is funny that the Greens are being played so well by the powers that be, that we go back to the Atomic Solution of cheap and almost free energy, as was promised in the 50's. Well that didn't work out on the first try, maybe it will now? Its the slow itch that maybe we got it right now, and if a place goes bad, and 20 square miles can't be livable is a problem and you should hold on to your GE investment. J Carter shut down all the breeder reactors, and rightfully so, because they could make bombs in an unstable world.
The promise is always there. There are huge forces to make you believe it is there. Huge political, and single interested Corps to say that there is a solution to make these safe. Yet they have failed, and always there is an explanation afterwards. We can't have nice things.

 

[JasperFrank]

"That's usually the way things work... United States pioneers and takes the risk and Europe and others see the way the wind blows and refine often to the next level..."

I have to say that this is totally different than my understanding. I think the Europeans developed on their own, all we think is ours, with out thinking about the US as a standard or anything else. What I discovered in Europe was everything we "call American invention", had already been done in Europe. We had a whole new county, and in so, we could just take the European patients and call them part of USA innovation: When in reality, they were not. They were copies of stuff already made. The concept of American Exceptionalism is a false one. And we have to get rid of that, if we are to join the world and not act like we are its master.