Plumbers in specific, does anyone give a crap any more in general.....?

[2manyrocks]

Sometimes people quote prices based on perceived ability to pay and hope they get lucky.

 

[crashz]

I knew I could be way off on the materials, but figured they would replace as much as they could, hence the WAG. Did they really only quote one guy to set the toilets? I realize that one person can do it, but its a heavy lift and I figured a plumbing company would assume this to be a two man job for the lifting involved.

So yeah - that is way expensive.

 

[ultrarunner]

I see both sides and I believe it comes down to many don't need the work.

If anything the last two years has proven work/employment is optional.

Lately faced with exorbitant bids to the point of no longer bothering...

Contracts don't mean much either in the era of Force Mejor.

The paradigm has shifted and maybe for an entire generation?

Of course this all spells opportunity for those motivated and ready to seize the moment...

On a side note seasoned workers have long been blamed for not retiring to make room for younger workers.

We now see the fallacy of this argument... with retirement age workers I know being offered full sign on bonus or retention pay for committing to 6 months to a year more on the job... medical, construction and trucking is my frame of reference.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

My son did all new floors in his house about a month ago. I went up to help him take out the old to save money. I asked specifically if toilet pull/replace was in the deal and he said yes (that made me happy). So.... after the floors were done, he found re-setting the crappers were not in the deal, this was I am sure his error. The new floors reduced the height, and made the flanges too high. He called a plumber, and was quoted $2,400 to fix the flanges and re-seat 3 toilets. He told me this, (I assume) because he knew I would have a stroke, and come do it.

Which I did, replaced one flange, shimmed the other two with cutting board plastic 3/8 inch thick. Replaced one toilet with a leaking tank from the removal, all the shutoffs. It took a long day for an old guy, and cost just slightly north of $300 in parts.

My wife's father lives about 5 hours away. When her sister has to leave town, my wife goes and takes care of her father. Today she was in his basement (nice house but older) and found an area rug in a hallway wet. Called a plumber, $150 bucks to show up and do nothing. Estimate for $2,600 to: 1. replace toilet in common bath room. 2. new garbage disposal, and split drain assembly in kitchen. No drywall work.

Oddly, I had a stroke, and will be going down and doing it next week.

I know I am old, I know stuff is more expensive now. Based on what I did for a living, and what I was paid, I do not now, nor will I ever believe a plumber, even with burden rate, is worth $350k a year. I think people that prey on people that don't know any better for a living should have a ****ty life.

I posted this because I am occasionally wrong, and try to learn when I am. Am I wrong?

Best,

ed

The trouble with getting old is one has the knowledge to do things and the tools to do things, but like an old dog whose mind is still willing, the body isn't really up to the task. Even so, people and employers are willing to accommodate old guys "slowness" because we show up on time, don't need much oversight, and generally will not destroy equipment, our coworkers, or our company's reputation while also instilling goodwill.

 

[ultrarunner]

Showing up on time and getting the job done right the first time...

I confess the corporate way often seems counter productive... instead of get it done it's policy and procedure.

 

[Richard]

Nah, She was just a fabulous Catholic babe with a Biology degree that liked to paint and write poetry and was teaching at a high school in her hometown of Cincinnati. My father was 8 years older, working on "some government project" while still in the Army reserves after WWII and living in Cincinnati at the YMCA. They both attended a lot of the same Catholic gatherings and mutual friends introduced them, saying they'd like each other. Apparently they did.... 6 weeks later they got married.

Nice story! (says he who was born in Cincy and grew up in Hamilton)

 

[jaxs]

Having dealt with all the building trades I will say plumbers are the worst when it come's customer service,price gouging and quility control. An interesting thing happened years ago when hvac contractors started having to be licensed. Prices doubled and quility of work went sour. Many one man companies chose for one reason or another not to be licensed and stopped doing the work. To fill the void in work force,larger companies hired warm bodys,put them in trucks and let consumers pay for their mistakes. Multi-family and child care facilities are sitting ducks for contractors because the majority of on site management are women with little to no hands on experience. More than a few hvac contractors have ordered replacement equipment, I checked their diagnosis while waiting for equipment, found a bad relay or other minor problem. When you are talking about several thousands of dollars instead of a few hundred,it's inexcusable that an inept serviceman's diagnosis isn't double checked and confirmed by contractor. It wasn't unusual to find technicians on the phone with someone walking them through a job.
A man with some duplexs I overseen maintenance for called me to complain about cost of a replacement compressor I had authorized a contractor to do. Seems he had called a contractor referred to him by a friend and the contractor replaced a compressor for about 40% what my contractor charged. The property owner instructed me to use this new hvac guy to which I had no objection but did feel something was not right with the contractor. After a rash of compressor replacements (all a bargain if I say so myself) I pulled some paid invoices,went to have a look. None had new compressors. Knowing the owner was going to come unspooled on anyone having a hand in making him out as a fool,instead of telling him what I found,I told him the local repersentive for Copeland was doing field surveys of warrantied compressors and would like to include a couple of his. Suffice it to say that client remembered why he hire me in the first place and became an advocate from then on.

 

[MossRoad]

Nice story! (says he who was born in Cincy and grew up in Hamilton)

Nice. She was always in the Carthage area, near where Paddock Rd. crosses 75. As I recall, the land for the house she was born in is now in the 2nd southbound lane of 75 just south of Paddock. They had several houses in the area. My grandfather had a paint store on Vine that closed in the late 60s. I spent a lot of time down there, in Sharonville, St. Bernard, and Sayler Park visiting with her family. A lot of GE company people in my generation.

 

[jaxs]

Showing up on time and getting the job done right the first time...

I confess the corporate way often seems counter productive... instead of get it done it's policy and procedure.

You got that right,there are people that deserve paying more simply so they can remain stupid while following policy and procedure. Case in point. The childcare company I mentioned above used thousands of yards of chipped wood annually for playgrounds. If you put conventional wood chips down kids get splinters,green chips build and retain heat quite a while until dried plus a host of other problems. A NY company called Fibar specializes in playground surfaces,wood chip being the most popular. The chip is shredded differently,dried and processed so the end product has no rough edges or splinters. My boss was down from Colorada to look at a new building in the finishing stages when a truck an crew pulling it to install wood chip on playground. Boss who had never seen chip being installed struck up a conversation with driver while he unloaded and crew spread chips. When he returned to join me in the building he handed me his hand written notes and asked that I contact this company about buying direct from them rather than through Fibar Company. The family owned company in East Texas was one of only a handful in USA with equipment for the special chips and agreed to sell direct on 30 day net. I contacted Holt Equipment about oversized buckets for skid steer and fowarded everything to boss in Colorada who signed a multi-state contract with chip processor and sent letters to facility managers about arranging for local contractors to buy oversize buckets. The net cost was 25% of Fibar for the same product. Everything went smooth and operations people where slapping my boss on the back for savings he earned them. Until an invoice wasn't paid on time,then one run around led to another until chip supplier called my boss saying he wanted paid asp,including a late fee. Enter accounts payable who says this company doesn't pay late fees and if he don't like it,,,,,,,. Well he didn't like it and we were back paying Fibar x3 as much for same product from same source. Moral of the story is even if you own the air plane you best ask the captain before setting up procedures on how to fly it.

 

[ultrarunner]

I’ve lost some excellent across the board vendors to Corp policy.

A few I have written my own personal check to cover and I then put in for reimbursement…

Did that Monday to the tune of $1917.00 letting the Admin know of course.

Hazardous tree dropped a large limb blocking receiving and high up I saw a split.

It takes months for the small guys to get paid and then it is by email notification they have to acknowledge so a electronic transfer is credited to vendor bank account…

Multiple levels of invoice approvals as it winds through corp in a 60,000 employee organization.

 

[kenmac]

Now the complaint is someone charging to give an estimate. Well, the employee must be paid to give that estimate, there is gasoline cost, vehicle cost, and you want me to ride around all day giving free estimates, with zero guarantee I'll ever land the job ? LOL
If I got the job, I would always deduct the estimate from the job .

I have had many ask if I buy the parts, or the A/C unit on line, will you install ? Yeah, For the same price I quoted you to begin with.
They buy on line, I have my guy install, Something is wrong with the unit. Now, they don't wanna pay, because the unit doesn't run ! LOL

Same with plumbing. I'll buy my water heater, and I'll pay you to install.
Install and the water heater leaks. Will you take it out, and I'll go get another one and you can re install it for no xtra money.

We dealt with idiots every day.
For some people, we would just give a high estimate because we wanted them to call someone else !

I went into the trads to make money, not just to live pay check to pay check.

Hell, I can sit home and do nothing and go broke, No need to work for cheap and go broke

 

[ultrarunner]

Yes… rather than say no the diplomatic way is a price high enough to make it worth your while.

A contractor friend truly works 7 days a week keeping projects on track…

He said materials is a huge headache more so than his crew.

He has raised prices significantly lately thinking it would slow business some but it has not.

He had to replace a truck, insurance, buy equipment, test employees, mask, fuel etc… across the board all more expensive.

 

[dirttoys]

Now the complaint is someone charging to give an estimate. Well, the employee must be paid to give that estimate, there is gasoline cost, vehicle cost, and you want me to ride around all day giving free estimates, with zero guarantee I'll ever land the job ? LOL
If I got the job, I would always deduct the estimate from the job .

I have had many ask if I buy the parts, or the A/C unit on line, will you install ? Yeah, For the same price I quoted you to begin with.
They buy on line, I have my guy install, Something is wrong with the unit. Now, they don't wanna pay, because the unit doesn't run ! LOL

Same with plumbing. I'll buy my water heater, and I'll pay you to install.
Install and the water heater leaks. Will you take it out, and I'll go get another one and you can re install it for no xtra money.

We dealt with idiots every day.
For some people, we would just give a high estimate because we wanted them to call someone else !

I went into the trads to make money, not just to live pay check to pay check.

Hell, I can sit home and do nothing and go broke, No need to work for cheap and go broke

Only point, if you charge for a service call or estimate, then you are not starving to death for all the work you didn't get.

Best,

ed

 

[Streetcar]

We've been having some starting issues with our 2014 Impala. Our mechanic trouble shot it and found the stater was shorted out. Changed out the starter and nothing. Found the computer was not sending a signal to the starter relay. Bad computer. Found a used one. Put it in. Found the battery wouldn't hold a charge and was tested bad. New battery. Everything works. About $500. Good to go.

A week later, it would not start again with same symptoms. He came over with his wife to get it, and it started right up. So he took it home and started it 20 times a day for three days. Drove it to his shop daily. No issues. Told me to come get it. 2 minutes later, he called back and said never mind, it finally failed on him. He spent considerable time wiggling wires and inspecting the fuse box. Finally narrowed it down the the starter relay socket in the fuse box had a loose grip on one of the stabs on the relay. Took the fuse box out, adjusted the socket, put it all back together, showed me what he did, and what to check if it happens again. I asked him how much I owed him?

$20 (twenty) bucks.

I'm gonna be sad if he ever moves. He's about 15 years younger than me. Hopefully I outlast him.

Similar problem on 2004 Malibu, mechanic hooked up to expensive computer. In half hour replaced wire cracked in terminal. Cost was $150. Technology can be wonderful

 

[jaxs]

No matter which way you slice it,retires are being screwed by upward spiraling costs. Each dollar saved while working buy's less with each passing year and there's no way to raise their income. Retires should feel like suckers for not living higher on the hog while working then throwing themselves on the mercy of taxpayers when no longer working. Welfare payments annually increase 10 fold the % of s.s. and self funded retirement funds. Were I working now I would do it cheaper than competition but only if I was paid in cash. What I lost by reduced contribution to SS would be made up several times over by welfare payments.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have wondered the financial benefit of 401k wage deferral compared to some of the pensions with medical my retired friends enjoy.

That big pot of money sounds great until you consider future purchasing power...

Managing subsidized housing for many years there have been times I think I would be quite happy living in a single family home I managed.

No matter what you are covered to a Max percentage of your income...

No maintenance concerns, gardener, discounted utilities, free cell phone, food assistance, full medical... several have bought brand new cars on the up and up...

The stress level is certainly less...

 

[kenmac]

Only point, if you charge for a service call or estimate, then you are not starving to death for all the work you didn't get.

Best,

ed

nah, I charge $80.00 for an estimate. I send out someone out, they get paid, I have fuel cost, insurance, etc, So I guess I can buy a pack of crackers. So, I'm not starving to death.
After reading your post about why tradsman charges xxx . I would quote you an out of sight price because I wouldn't want to do the job for someone that thinks a business person should work for raw peanuts, instead of roasted peanuts

 

[dirttoys]

No matter which way you slice it,retires are being screwed by upward spiraling costs. Each dollar saved while working buy's less with each passing year and there's no way to raise their income. Retires should feel like suckers for not living higher on the hog while working then throwing themselves on the mercy of taxpayers when no longer working. Welfare payments annually increase 10 fold the % of s.s. and self funded retirement funds. Were I working now I would do it cheaper than competition but only if I was paid in cash. What I lost by reduced contribution to SS would be made up several times over by welfare payments.

I agree with parts, none of my retirement modeling included costs of everything I use doubling in 18 mo

The grocery store gets way more of my budget then I planned. And the gas station gets too much.

The equipment dealers get nothing. The lumber yards get nothing. The darn plumbers certainly get nothing.

I hold out hope that if there are enough people like me, prices will come back to reasonable levels. If not, I will do less projects............

Best,

ed

 

[Jstpssng]

nah, I charge $80.00 for an estimate. I send out someone out, they get paid, I have fuel cost, insurance, etc, So I guess I can buy a pack of crackers. So, I'm not starving to death.
After reading your post about why tradsman charges xxx . I would quote you an out of sight price because I wouldn't want to do the job for someone that thinks a business person should work for raw peanuts, instead of roasted peanuts

I have always assumed that cost was passed on to the paying customers. It seems like charging for estimates is a more fair way of doing it, and would help to eliminate tire kickers.

 

[dirttoys]

nah, I charge $80.00 for an estimate. I send out someone out, they get paid, I have fuel cost, insurance, etc, So I guess I can buy a pack of crackers. So, I'm not starving to death.
After reading your post about why tradsman charges xxx . I would quote you an out of sight price because I wouldn't want to do the job for someone that thinks a business person should work for raw peanuts, instead of roasted peanuts

LOL I think you either made my point or I made yours..........

An honest person quotes cost plus margin, same job, same cost without regard to the customer. Maybe cut the widows and orphans a break if you can stand it. If you previously don't like me, don't show up to produce the inflated quote.

Showing up for $80 and producing a ******** quote is dishonest at best, and theft at worst. You are a solid +1 to my two prior experiences. And, I think you answer the biggest question of my post.......

Nothing you said makes me (and I hope anyone else) want to do business with you.