Ideas for cannon ball extraction?

[airbiscuit]

If you can get good purchase with your drill bit or a cannon worm, connect it to a slide hammer, and out it will come. (don't forget to use some lubrication)

 

[newbury]

I never thought about a bit like that. I might already have one too.
I like the idea, especially with the bit being smaller, I can maybe be more precise with it's location

(Am working today and tomorrow, 100 miles from home so will take a couple days to be sure)

If you don't already have an SDS (or Plus, or Max or Spline) drill they are very handy. And you can easily get "bit" extensions and adapters. (Milwaukee makes an 82.5" extension for the Max.)
My son got me hooked when he got a Bosch 1-1/4" SDS-Plus Rotary Hammer which he lent me and then I later bought a Bauer (HF brand) 10 Amp SDS Plus-Type Variable Speed Rotary Hammer. I've used the Bauer quite a bit and it goes through concrete block easily.
They would easily drill through your cannon balls with the right bits.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Richard,

Since you asked the question, but it was buried in the text, I will answer this.

If the powder in the chamber is actually REAL blackpowder (and not a modern substitute powder like Pyrodex), it doesn't matter how "wet" you get it (with water). As soon as it dries, or mostly dries (depending on how much heat you add), it is fully ready to go "boom" again.

If you wet/soak it with petroleum based oils, it is "supposed to" make it inert. I say the "supposed to", because if you just wet it, but not drown it, and you hit it with enough heat (think welding torch) it will very likely still go "boom".

But water will not kill REAL blackpowder. Just dry it out and rock on.

 

[hosspuller]

The slide hammer idea may be combined with an expanding concrete anchor (the kind with a wedge on a steel stud) Drill the proper sized hole, insert the anchor fastened to the slide hammer. Wack away till the second ball comes out.

 

[Paddy]

I suggested using all thread as a simple gear puller near the beginning of this thread
these two balls would have been removed a long time ago. But we would have missed out on all the Darwin award methods

 

[Richard]

Worked on cannon a bit....and got the second ball out. On getting it out, looked down bore to see condition of what I expected to be the third ball.....and there is NO third ball, so the bore is now empty. Dirty, but empty.

I used the same wood boring bit, had same shavings, and again, the bit got stuck INSIDE the ball. I could push it through the ball (to the end of the bore) BUT, I didn't have the strength to pull it back through the opening that it drilled as the opening had deformed a bit.

Got to thinking about a slide hammer....and I don't have one. So, I put my extension THROUGH a hole in a board I had and used board as a lever. It pulled the drill right off.

So, I took apart, clipped my vice grips onto the end and now used board as lever on the bore, and it moved. Put another board behind it to push it further away, ball moved more. Then it stopped. So thinking slide hammer, I held board against vice grips (as pictured) and used 5-pound hammer on other side to slowly drive ball out.

I am convinced that there is NO WAY this would have come out using (home tools) such as water pressure, holding cannon vertical and dropping it onto something. I'm convinced there's no way this ball, either one of them was ever going to come out WITHOUT them being destroyed or highly damaged. Once I made that decision to just get them out, I finally got traction towards my goal.

Here's my home made slide hammer.

After enough pounding, here's the offender. I still don't know what that hole is for on the ball.

and here's the little bugger in all its glory. Now I've got TWO of them chewed up like this and nine other that are pristine.

On way home from work today, stopped by gun/ammo store. Bought two pounds of gunpowder. They didn't have any fuse. I HAVE some, but don't yet know if it will work. I might not yet be out of the woods with the required ingredients.

Once I got the ball out, I rinsed the bore, put some oil in and took my hone back to it. It was thundering so I stopped and put things away.

That's where it currently stands.

 

[CADplans]

On way home from work today, stopped by gun/ammo store. Bought two pounds of gunpowder.

I hope you mis-typed,,
ANY type of gunpowder will blow pieces of that cannon into three surrounding counties.
(Gunpowder is simply nitroglycerin and a carrier.)
Nitroglycerin can give you a strange headache,, that is why you should not smell gunpowder too much.
Black powder is the only propellent that can be used,,,

 

[Richard]

Might be my ignorance. Me (not being a gun person) "gunpowder is gunpowder"

Guy at store said it wasn't "black powder" but it was for cannons. It is not smokeless (if that matters) and he's got several people that use this for their cannons.

He said you don't want a fast burn (pardon my using) "gunpowder" in a cannon, but you want a slow burning (pardon me again) "gunpowder" in the cannon as the fast burn will blow it up.

He said what I had was the slow burn stuff.

It might be my ignorance of which word is correct in which place. I've tried probably a dozen places and thus far, haven't found anyone that has 'black powder' in stock. Most don't even carry it. Some have it in "every now & then".....but I suppose with the 4th around the corner, it's popular right now.

Tomorrow, I'll try to post the name (or maybe a picture) of it since I'm not clear what it is. I DO recall that it is "FFS" (or is it "FSS") I don't recall....but I seem to recall reading that the Cannon should use "FS" (or SF) Now that I type that, I do think it's FS instead of the other way around.

I specifically asked about that and that's when he said a number of people use this in their cannons and explained the slow burn.

 

[Buckeye Guy]

Might be my ignorance. Me (not being a gun person) "gunpowder is gunpowder"

Guy at store said it wasn't "black powder" but it was for cannons. It is not smokeless (if that matters) and he's got several people that use this for their cannons.

He said you don't want a fast burn (pardon my using) "gunpowder" in a cannon, but you want a slow burning (pardon me again) "gunpowder" in the cannon as the fast burn will blow it up.

He said what I had was the slow burn stuff.

It might be my ignorance of which word is correct in which place. I've tried probably a dozen places and thus far, haven't found anyone that has 'black powder' in stock. Most don't even carry it. Some have it in "every now & then".....but I suppose with the 4th around the corner, it's popular right now.

Tomorrow, I'll try to post the name (or maybe a picture) of it since I'm not clear what it is. I DO recall that it is "FFS" (or is it "FSS") I don't recall....but I seem to recall reading that the Cannon should use "FS" (or SF) Now that I type that, I do think it's FS instead of the other way around.

I specifically asked about that and that's when he said a number of people use this in their cannons and explained the slow burn.

The F's is the size of measure of the powder (grain). For example, Fg is the coursest grain, which burns slower. It goes up to FFFFg, which is very fine and burns very fast. Rule of thumb, .50 or less, use FFFg or FFFFg, .50 or more, use FFg or Fg. I use FFg in my .54 cal

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Don't know what kind of powder to put in there, just wanted to congratulate your perseverance to get those balls out of there!

I hope you're able to fire it off! And.... post a video when doing so!

 

[plowhog]

I saw this cannon today in Carson City, NV. It had a display of "cannon balls" in front.

After examining these .... "cannon balls" .... I wonder-- why didn't you just use the finger holes in the cannon ball and pull it out?

 

[Jstpssng]

This has been interesting to follow, and I'm glad that you got it out. I wonder if those balls were used for ornaments at one time, and the holes were used to hold them into place on the brass monkey.

Just a suggestion; before firing it, perhaps you should consult your new friend the armorer, who knows more about cannons than most of us commenting on this thread.

 

[Richard]

The F's is the size of measure of the powder (grain). For example, Fg is the coursest grain, which burns slower. It goes up to FFFFg, which is very fine and burns very fast. Rule of thumb, .50 or less, use FFFg or FFFFg, .50 or more, use FFg or Fg. I use FFg in my .54 cal

Ahh, yes, now I recall. It's FG, not FS. I remember thinking how will I remember that? (evidently I didn't) but for reference, I was thinking Field Goal..... Well, I sucked at football so guess I couldn't remember that.

Regarding my newest Blast-O-Matic friend..... yeah, now that it's out I'm looking to text him. I've never met him, just chatted via phone.

I might be able to use my borescope to take some internal pictures to save him a drive.

Yesterday, I was at work. (I cover a territory and one location I go to is a prison). I was talking to one of the Security Officers (it was explained to me that they prefer to be called SO's, verses "Guards") anyway, I asked him about any idea where to buy black powder...got a bit into the story and it was amusing to me to see his face during our chat about his retirement account..... pretty dead pan, pretty serious.... when I asked about the black powder and said I had a cannon, his face dramatically "lit up" (seems things that go BOOM interest him far more than his retirement).

He offered to buy the cannon, sight unseen...... for $5.00.



I told him we could maybe swap his pension to me for it....and we might have a deal. He went back to deadpan.

lol

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I'm glad you got the ball out safely. Congrats on that. As far as the hole in the ball, that may be a vent hole to vent out air pockets while casting the ball in a mold. May help get the molten lead to "fill" the casting mold completely. A ball with various abnormal air pockets in it will not "fly true" on it's way to the target.

If you save both of those balls, you can resmelt them and cast them back into round balls again. I certainly wouldn't dispose of them. Lead is expensive (over a buck a pound) and even if you never get setup to cast balls, someone sure could use them or buy them from you. Maybe one of your new cannon buddies can cast the balls for you, if they have the right diameter casting mold.

It sounds like you have a blackpowder "substitute" powder. That is fine. Load it like a blackpowder load. Also NO AIRSPACE between powder charge and ball, when you seat the ball. Take a picture of the powder can (bottle) when you can. As a VERY rough rule of thumb, when firing a round ball, you should be safe loading 1 grain of powder for every .01 of bore caliber. So a .50 caliber gun should be quite safe to fire 50 grains of blackpowder (or your substitute) behind the round ball. That would be considered a "mild" load. Too much less than that and you risk "sticking" the ball in the bore.

The "5 pounder" mountain howitzer I fired used a whole pound of (real) blackpowder per shot. Not suggesting you go anywhere near that powder charge in your gun. What is the bore size again?

Please be careful, and get that barrel's bore surface clean before you try it. Resistance to movement of the ball (rough/rusted/dirty bore) can sharply increase pressures.

 

[Richard]

Went to garage to get my cat's breakfast ready....didn't have camera with me. Looked at bottle of powder, said it was a black powder substitute and was slow burning.

Guy at store said it would fire cleaner than black powder so leave less residue. (?)

I think it was called Pdex or Pyrodex, something like that. Yeah I know....'fantastic description' but the cat was rubbing on my ankles hankering for his breakfast.

 

[Richard]

It sounds like you have a blackpowder "substitute" powder. That is fine. Load it like a blackpowder load. Also NO AIRSPACE between powder charge and ball, when you seat the ball. Take a picture of the powder can (bottle) when you can. As a VERY rough rule of thumb, when firing a round ball, you should be safe loading 1 grain of powder for every .01 of bore caliber. So a .50 caliber gun should be quite safe to fire 50 grains of blackpowder (or your substitute) behind the round ball. That would be considered a "mild" load. Too much less than that and you risk "sticking" the ball in the bore.

OCD question....do you mean "grain" as in a "spec" of powder or do you mean it as a unit of weight? "39 grams" for example.

I've been told by my new, never met yet cop friend that roughly 2 ounces should work for a bang and some smoke. If I want to launch a projectile, I should NOT go over around 4 ounces. The guy at the ammo store, gave same guidelines without knowing I had already been told that.

How does two ounces for example, translate to grains? (unless you meant grams?)

Anyway, the bore is right at 2.22 inches so I'm calling it 2 1/4". This was measured at the very tip of the bore.

I've been told I can get some frozen orange juice cans and load them with concrete to fire them, instead of the lead ball. I'm intrigued by that...but figured I'd need it to be maybe a 2" diameter as I'm guessing (without knowing) that you don't want it "TIGHT" against the bore as it might jam. Then again, maybe it's the opposite.... putting a 2" slug into a 2 1/4" bore might allow it to jack sideways and jam.

Thoughts?

(I'll probably just stick to rags but a slug DOES intrigue the mischievous part of me)

 

[Richard]

Oh, and I discovered my extend-a-hone is not working correctly.

It all works....but the original threaded rod has a swell in it which prevents the hone from "walking" up the threads. My rod doesn't prevent that. I discovered that when I put the hone in, the threaded rod extended say, one inch past the threaded part of the hone. When I finished, I had 7-8 inches of threaded rod on that part so clearly, the rod is turning inside the hone allowing the hone to work its way up the rod.

I need to get a lock nut so I can freeze the hone in place. That infers I've lost/missed some honing action as it was busy moving up the rod instead of rotating and honing.

 

[JethroB]

Just spitballing here, when you are ready for your first trial ‘BOOM’, what about using a potato, tennis ball or something similar and a bit less lethal? And it could be easier to extract/cleanup if things don’t go perfectly. Of course a video is required for our amusement or your heirs. Keep updates coming.

 

[2manyrocks]

This is a situation where I would personally want some real advice from some one who actually shoots a black powder canon. Has this thing ever been fired or was it just a display canon?

There's a guy who comes to local July 4th events to fire his canon. The thing throws red hot sparks 20-30'. I could see it starting a fire in dry conditions. No telling how much $ has literally gone up in smoke.

 

[ultrarunner]

What’s the downside of no projectile and using wadded paper or cloth?

Unless you can fire against a hill for a backstop going without a projectile for a first shot seems a lot safer plus being able to keep your balls…