California Targets Private Property With Latest Water Well Fees, Charges: Report

[Raul-02]

I did a case where the town was trying to force all the landowners to go on town water. The town lost. But in the people's republic of CA this might fly.

 

[Jstpssng]

I did a case where the town was trying to force all the landowners to go on town water. The town lost. But in the people's republic of CA this might fly.

The cemetery across from my mother wanted to drill a well but the town wouldn't let them. Instead they have to tie into the town system which was just put in on the road which forms the other side of the tract. They still would have to bring the pipeline another 1000 feet.

 

[Raul-02]

The cemetery across from my mother wanted to drill a well but the town wouldn't let them. Instead they have to tie into the town system which was just put in on the road which forms the other side of the tract. They still would have to bring the pipeline another 1000 feet.

Municipalities and their Constitutionally ignorant elected officials are the Greasest things for young lawyers wanting to make a mark, get a case in the federal reporters, and maybe, get to argue before the Supreme Court.
Municipalities tend not to be run by the most legally savvy of people. They often make rules or pass laws that are so outside of any Constitutional license that they end up being stricken as void on their faces, which means there was not one single thing about the legislation that could be saved. Often the town will want to slug it out and the inferior local courts will side with the town because they can get away with it and the devil take the law.
Then in Federal (you get there because it's a civil rights matter), the inferior Fed courts are sufficiently spotty that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

I can't tell you how many times I've read an opinion or been before a state court where the judge didn't care one little bit about the law and just made things come out as they bloody well pleased.
Disciplining the inferior courts is part of the job of the state Supreme court but in my state they almost never do.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

The city could assume that if you aren't paying a water utility, you have a well. So it would be pretty easy to determine who has one to begin with.

Or you could use your house things as normal. Use your well for everything else. Maybe that garden. Wash that car. California is changing from the place to be, to the place to leave.

 

[Diggin It]

Or you could use your house things as normal. Use your well for everything else. Maybe that garden. Wash that car.

And when there isn't any water because people have wasted too much on lawns and cars?

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

And when there isn't any water because people have wasted too much on lawns and cars?

Hey, if you have land, and water is under that land, it is your water. I wonder how your argument would be if they found oil on your land. Maybe even a vein of mineral? It'd probably be a little bit different I imagine.

 

[Oaktree]

I did a case where the town was trying to force all the landowners to go on town water. The town lost. But in the people's republic of CA this might fly.

At my last house I wish town water came down my road. Well water was awful, had a very "swampy" taste and odor. Neighbors all had the same issues, some had expensive filtration systems which made it less bad. It got so I'd go to a roadside spring a couple miles away for my drinking water.

 

[Oaktree]

Hey, if you have land, and water is under that land, it is your water. I wonder how your argument would be if they found oil on your land. Maybe even a vein of mineral? It'd probably be a little bit different I imagine.

That depends on where you live. In many western states buying a piece of property doesn't necessarily convey water or mineral rights.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Water comes up and used for shower, washer, dishes, toilet, etc, then goes back in the ground via septic system. I'm putting it back after use.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

That depends on where you live. In many western states buying a piece of property doesn't necessarily convey water or mineral rights.

I figure water rights would be surface water. I don't see how they could do sub terranian water. Though they do oil rights here. I'm right near the Haynesville Shale. Already oil wells everywhere, and one company just finished 613 more, and that's just one company. Lithium is here too, they get it out of bromine.

 

[Diggin It]

Water comes up and used for shower, washer, dishes, toilet, etc, then goes back in the ground via septic system. I'm putting it back after use.

That water most likely evaporates as almost all water we use does. Very little of it goes back to usable source like waterways or aquifers. Somebody upthread mentioned a term in thousands of years for aquifers to replenish.

 

[dmccarty]

...
I also remember watching a program on PBS about the bristlecone pine trees which live in the sierra mountains at higher elevations. They are some of the oldest tress in the world and if I'm remembering correctly they were able to overlap the tree rings from currently living tress with ones that were dead to go back in time 8,000 years. In doing so they noted that the last 200 years were some of the wettest years that the tress had ever experienced! My first thought was wow, so if you think its dry in California now, just imagen how dry it was before everyone moved there in the last 200 years!
...

I remember reading years ago that the South West was in a climatic wet period that is not normal. Figured it is going to h...ll to pay when the normal dry period returns. Is the current dry spell just a short term issue or is it the start the return of the normal drier climate?

Later,
Dan

 

[Egon]

Hey, if you have land, and water is under that land, it is your water. I wonder how your argument would be if they found oil on your land. Maybe even a vein of mineral? It'd probably be a little bit different I imagine.

Sorry, the rights to the water Under your land will belong to others.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Sorry, the rights to the water Under your land will belong to others.

I'd be heading to the Supreme Court of the land with that one. But I've only been to California one time. Helped someone move to Riverside. I stayed at the house and waited to leave. Left and never went back. Too foreign to me.

 

[Egon]

I'd be heading to the Supreme Court of the land with that one. But I've only been to California one time. Helped someone move to Riverside. I stayed at the house and waited to leave. Left and never went back. Too foreign to me.

Don’t think you’d even get close. No one owns the water under their land Or that falls on their land.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Don’t think you’d even get close. No one owns the water under their land Or that falls on their land.

Here they do. So, I live here.

 

[mapper]

Here in Washington water rights have become a major issue. Towns and cities have to have adequate water rights before additional development is allowed. Getting them by eminent domain has become pretty much impossible recently and they have to purchase them from someone or something that already owns them. There are quite a few large farms that had substantial water rights that have sold them for a lot of money. Nearby towns that do not have or their current water rights are nearing capacity require developers to purchase water rights for the city before development can proceed.
So far this has not affected rural landowners with wells for domestic use.
Much of this is in response to lawsuits won by the tribal nations for protection of river flows and fishing rights.

 

[Diggin It]

Doctrine of Reasonable Use​

The Reasonable Use doctrine, also known as the "American Rule," is a variation of the Absolute Dominion doctrine. A property owner may have access to all the groundwater underneath his/her property as long as it is used "reasonably" and doesn't greatly affect the rights of those who may share the same aquifer.

The word "reasonable" can be interpreted differently between states but the underlying principle is that neighbors who share the same groundwater source should be able to enjoy it responsibly and without excessive wasting. This generally covers most household uses such as gardening, livestock use, and indoor use.

With groundwater levels becoming increasingly precarious and with population increasing across the country, many states have adopted the Reasonable Use doctrine as a way of balancing water rights and water availability.

States that follow the Reasonable Use doctrine are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and West Virginia.

Is it Legal to Drill Your Own Well? A State by State Guide

A full list of groundwater laws for each state including permit and license requirements, lists of licensed well contractors, and official well water guides published by various water resources departments…

worldwaterreserve.com

 

[dmccarty]

Sorry, the rights to the water Under your land will belong to others.

Well, it depends on the location.

I was trying to find information on a county in NC regarding ground water ownership by a private company. Can't find the information though but I ran across some other interesting water law/rights. In Texas, the water is owned by the landowner, which was a decision in the Texas Supreme court a decade or so back.

Any who, found this document has information on some US states water rights, laws, etc.

Whose Water Is It Anyway? Comparing the Water Rights Frameworks of Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida - Oklahoma State University

Arkansas landowners have a right to withdraw ground water from underlying aquifers without limit as long as the water is put to beneficial use. This right cannot be sold separately from the land. Registration is required for wells with a maximum flow rate greater than 50,000 gallons per day.

In NC, this document was interesting, Who Owns the Water? Part 1 - Groundwater.

And so the simple starting point for discussion of groundwater ownership in NC is that owners of land have the right to make “reasonable use” of the groundwater beneath their property. In other words, like the riparian rights that come with ownership of land alongside surface water, the right to extract and use groundwater is one of the bundle of rights that come with real estate ownership. (The text in bold was in the linked document)

Wish I could find what I was looking for though.... <sigh>

Later,
Dan

 

[MossRoad]

Hey, if you have land, and water is under that land, it is your water. I wonder how your argument would be if they found oil on your land. Maybe even a vein of mineral? It'd probably be a little bit different I imagine.

And your neighbor sucks out a few million gallons, your well goes dry, but it’s not you neighbor’s fault, right?