Where to find SYP lumber in SW PA?

[LD1]

Fewer columns, fewer holes, fewer fasteners. I have confidence in my engineers design, so I don’t see any reason to add primary members.

Have you ran some of these questions past your engineer?

Like why they spec #2 or better SYP but then contradict that by saying 1000Fb 1.6E? Or the fact that current standards has #2SPF being stronger lumber than #2SYP?

 

[PistolPete]

Have you ran some of these questions past your engineer?

Like why they spec #2 or better SYP but then contradict that by saying 1000Fb 1.6E? Or the fact that current standards has #2SPF being stronger lumber than #2SYP?

I did send some questions to the designer today, haven’t heard back yet. I specifically asked for him to let me know if subbing SPF (of any grade) would be acceptable, and what the limiting constraints are (deflection, bending stress, or other)

I seen a couple people mention that SPF is stronger than SYP - where are you seeing this? The NDS tables don’t agree with that.

 

[LD1]

I seen a couple people mention that SPF is stronger than SYP - where are you seeing this? The NDS tables don’t agree with that.

All depends on grade.
Both #1 and #2 SPF is listed at 1208Fb and 1.4e but SYP #2 is 1064Fb and 1.4e. But #1 SYP is 1438Fb and 1.6e

So forgetting MSR lumber, or "select" stuff.....just going off of #1 and #2 stuff.....strength as follows
1. #1 SYP
2. #1 and #2 SPF tied
3. #2 SYP

Play around with that AWC.org calculator I posted a link to earlier.

 

[PistolPete]

All depends on grade.
Both #1 and #2 SPF is listed at 1208Fb and 1.4e but SYP #2 is 1064Fb and 1.4e. But #1 SYP is 1438Fb and 1.6e

So forgetting MSR lumber, or "select" stuff.....just going off of #1 and #2 stuff.....strength as follows
1. #1 SYP
2. #1 and #2 SPF tied
3. #2 SYP

Play around with that AWC.org calculator I posted a link to earlier.

Where are you finding those Fb values? My NDS supplement gives spf #1/2 as 875psi and syp #2 as 1000psi (both for 6” wide lumber). E values are the same as you note.

I’ve used that calculator as well, and it does support use of SPF for both my girt and purlin spans … but I’m just trying to get my head around why we are seeing different design limits.

 

[LD1]

Finding the information from the same calculator I linked, and have suggested you play around with several times now.

All depends on grade.
Both #1 and #2 SPF is listed at 1208Fb and 1.4e but SYP #2 is 1064Fb and 1.4e. But #1 SYP is 1438Fb and 1.6e

So forgetting MSR lumber, or "select" stuff.....just going off of #1 and #2 stuff.....strength as follows
1. #1 SYP
2. #1 and #2 SPF tied
3. #2 SYP

Play around with that AWC.org calculator I posted a link to earlier.

Where are you finding those Fb values? My NDS supplement gives spf #1/2 as 875psi and syp #2 as 1000psi (both for 6” wide lumber). E values are the same as you note.

I’ve used that calculator as well, and it does support use of SPF for both my girt and purlin spans … but I’m just trying to get my head around why we are seeing different design limits.

Not sure. Lumber grading has changed quite a bit over the years.
I never give much though to the Fb or E values. I just input my information.....and it tells how far it can span. If I want to span farther, I try other options....like closer spacing or upsizing the boards.

 

[JWR]

Oh for pete sake -- you the OP said you want it to last the rest of your life and durability and being done right are the main things. So why don't you go to one of the pole barn builders [they are all over the country] and just have them do the job and do it right?

They will have the building done before you finish arguing about lumber, will do a better job in most cases AND you will be happier in the long run. They go up so fast you will be astounded and the result is a good building. Otherwise I think you are out on the limbs of some tree there was no reason to climb.

 

[Surshot]

SYP is rated as stronger than steel by weight. So the strength of other woods by comparison is not a subject of opinion.
If you look at the Fiber Bending Strength of Southen Yellow Pine, little in a wood species even comes close.
Cutting it after 20 years in a wall, is a trick, throws sparks, try driving a nail in the aged stuff, need a drill

I own a SYP tree farm, right now looking out the window at 150’ tall trees.

At the current price, a list and a 5th wheel trailer might be in order, especially if you can use rough cut, got a 48” butt capable mill just down the road. Some places allow, some want S4S kiln dried. For a pole barn I would prefer rough cut, thicker and atronger.

 

[LD1]

SYP is rated as stronger than steel by weight. So the strength of other woods by comparison is not a subject of opinion.
If you look at the Fiber Bending Strength of Southen Yellow Pine, little in a wood species even comes close.
Cutting it after 20 years in a wall, is a trick, throws sparks, try driving a nail in the aged stuff, need a drill

I own a SYP tree farm, right now looking out the window at 150’ tall trees.

At the current price, a list and a 5th wheel trailer might be in order, especially if you can use rough cut, got a 48” butt capable mill just down the road. Some places allow, some want S4S kiln dried. For a pole barn I would prefer rough cut, thicker and atronger.

That post pegs the BS meter

 

[tornado112]

I would use white oak. The wood is extremely rot resistant, and is abundant out in pa. There are so many local mills out there in pa you could do business with them instead of box stores. A Lumber only needs to be graded if it is going to be used as living space. Since you are putting up an ag building there is no need for graded lumber.

 

[PistolPete]

Any building in my township needs to be code compliant, so I absolutely need to use dry graded lumber for my secondary framing. No way to design for proper deflections without it.

Back to the original topic, based on earlier advice I’ve managed to source SYP from Menards in Tridelphia. Sincr I’ve already posed question of SPF go by building designer, I’ll wait for that answer. If possible I always prefer to buy local, and SPF is a lot lighter and easier to work with.

BTW LD12, I figured out why we were misaligned with our figures. The AWC span calculator shows adjusted Fb values, which take into account factors like size, spacing, and use cases to modify the base numbers that are in the tables. So based on that, you’re totally correct that for certain size (particularly 2x6 and 2x8), SPF does have a higher bending strength for grade #2.

I appreciate everyone’s input