Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[Richard001]

. I had several banks offering loans for the installation because the numbers work for them just as clearly. Banks don't offer loans for bad risks.

Well the bank didn't give you a loan to invest in a business, they gave you a loan based on your outstand liabilities and your income.

So that fact that you were able to borrow money to install solar panels has nothing to do with whether or not the bank thinks it's a good idea.

 

[Pixguy]

I'm late to this thread but,
Yes, I would buy an EV if the true cost was close to comparable to using and maintaining a gas vehicle and if the batteries on y property could charge said vehicle.

True = Not asking my neighbors to subsidize the car or the solar panels as is the common practice today.

 

[nickfank]

Well the bank didn't give you a loan to invest in a business, they gave you a loan based on your outstand liabilities and your income.

So that fact that you were able to borrow money to install solar panels has nothing to do with whether or not the bank thinks it's a good idea.

No, this wasn't a personal or home improvement loan. For the bank, it *is* a business loan arranged through the installers. Because the installers are willing to guarantee that the savings in utility payments will exceed the loan payments, the bank only needs to know that I've been paying my utility bills. That's how they know it's a very low risk loan. I just pay them instead of the power company, and pay less. (BTW, I didn't opt to borrow the money in spite of the offers- The rate of return on buying solar is much better than any stock index fund.)

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I'm late to this thread but,
Yes, I would buy an EV if the true cost was close to comparable to using and maintaining a gas vehicle and if the batteries on y property could charge said vehicle.

True = Not asking my neighbors to subsidize the car or the solar panels as is the common practice today.

No one should go around begging for an EV I agree.

 

[ultrarunner]

Headlines today are about Extreme heat blast taxing grid asking users to throttle back due to unprecedented heat…

A couple of thoughts… we have had heat waves and records set before and still standing without grid issues.

The difference is every heater replacement now comes with A/C which was non existent prior plus 3 of 10 homes here now have plug in electric and gas cooking nearly banned for new installs.

On page two it urges people to stay indoors in air conditioned spaces out of heat.

So it’s a problem because hot weather now means A/C which was not a possibility before as number 1 and to a lesser extent peaker plants de-commissioned due to natural gas or diesel power.

 

[nickfank]

I'm late to this thread but,
Yes, I would buy an EV if the true cost was close to comparable to using and maintaining a gas vehicle and if the batteries on y property could charge said vehicle.

True = Not asking my neighbors to subsidize the car or the solar panels as is the common practice today.

I can verify that the true cost yields not just comparable costs, but savings. At the same time, I happily took the subsidy for our panels. In return, I'm paying for my neighbor's agricultural subsidies.

The "break even" date on the panels without the tax credit is 12 years. With the tax credit, we break even in 9 years. The equipment is warranted for 30, so if you want to stand on principle and not accept a subsidy, you can still do this, the payoff is just slower.

I didn't worry about calculating a break even date on the car, because I bought it used to replace another car, and it didn't cost much more than a conventional car. In effect, it just started saving money on day one. (You don't have to buy a snazzy new Tesla- Chevy and Kia make nice EVs that don't cost a ton used.)

 

[Roric]

About 1952 "killer smog" took the lives of 12,000 people in England, seriously injured another 20,000.
It still took them until 1956 to pass the "Clean Air Act".
These kind of events in China are never brought to light
So we can persist in being the frog in the pan of warming water or try to turn down the burner.

We should use all of the incentives we need to get there.
Power poles have to go up for wind farms, nuke plants, solar farms and hydro.
Customers have always paid for these poles. Call it Infrastructure.

Enabling the switch to EV's could be a good worth going for.

(Richard001, over time the Public Utilities Commission has been stacked by both parties and neither
party seems to be able to look into the future. Or at least see past the utilities' shareholders concerns.)

regards,
R

 

[Pixguy]

I can verify that the true cost yields not just comparable costs, but savings. At the same time, I happily took the subsidy for our panels. In return, I'm paying for my neighbor's agricultural subsidies.

The "break even" date on the panels without the tax credit is 12 years. With the tax credit, we break even in 9 years. The equipment is warranted for 30, so if you want to stand on principle and not accept a subsidy, you can still do this, the payoff is just slower.

I didn't worry about calculating a break even date on the car, because I bought it used to replace another car, and it didn't cost much more than a conventional car. In effect, it just started saving money on day one. (You don't have to buy a snazzy new Tesla- Chevy and Kia make nice EVs that don't cost a ton used.)

You do realize that I subsidized your panels as well? What are you subsidizing for me?
Didn't your car get taxpayer subsidies as well?

 

[nickfank]

You do realize that I subsidized your panels as well? What are you subsidizing for me?
Didn't your car get taxpayer subsidies as well?

Well, if you eat, those ag subsidies not only benefit farmers, but also keep your food costs low. I'm assuming you use fuel, so you benefit from the subsidies provided to encourage explorations & development of fossil resources. Do you eat honey? Wear clothes containing wool? Work for a company that got a PPP loan? Drive on an Interstate Highway? Do you drive a car manufactured by one of the car companies that the government bailed out? Is your bank account covered by FDIC insurance? Do you use electricity supplied by a utility? Do you use anything shipped by rail? Attend a public school or university? (I'm pretty sure you're using the Internet, so I won't ask that one...)

I would happily vote to eliminate all subsidies and have our economy operate by merit alone, but since we haven't won that vote yet, I acknowledge that everyone around me is benefitting from government subsidies and I'm not going to place my family at a disadvantage by paying hefty taxes and then not benefitting from the programs those taxes support.


I bought both cars used, so no direct subsidies... but the Chevy was built after GM was bailed out by the government. (Tesla was not, BTW)

Edit- On reflection, I was wrong when I said I'd happily vote to eliminate all subsidies. Our standard of living is very high in large part due to the subsidies that got things like electric utilities and transportation infrastructure started. We're having this discussion over a communication network that got started with subsidies. I guess I just don't like *unfair* subsidies that are supported primarily by the working class while benefitting the rich in already established industries... but I realize that leaves a lot of room to disagree. I also realize that a discussion of tax policy is a little off the topic of tractors, so I'll just leave this with the note that on the whole, it has all worked out pretty well for Americans, and I appreciate that & wish the rest of the world could have similar benefits.

 

[ruffdog]

Here is an interesting video of Fords Lightning towing 7500 pounds 8 miles up then down in the mountains. They also towed with a Chevy with the 6.2L. Things to note....the Chevy will be gasping because it is naturally aspirated. The EV is about out of juice going up but charges on the way down.

 

[Pixguy]

Well, if you eat, those ag subsidies not only benefit farmers, but also keep your food costs low. I'm assuming you use fuel, so you benefit from the subsidies provided to encourage explorations & development of fossil resources. Do you eat honey? Wear clothes containing wool? Work for a company that got a PPP loan? Drive on an Interstate Highway? Do you drive a car manufactured by one of the car companies that the government bailed out? Is your bank account covered by FDIC insurance? Do you use electricity supplied by a utility? Do you use anything shipped by rail? Attend a public school or university? (I'm pretty sure you're using the Internet, so I won't ask that one...)

I would happily vote to eliminate all subsidies and have our economy operate by merit alone, but since we haven't won that vote yet, I acknowledge that everyone around me is benefitting from government subsidies and I'm not going to place my family at a disadvantage by paying hefty taxes and then not benefitting from the programs those taxes support.


I bought both cars used, so no direct subsidies... but the Chevy was built after GM was bailed out by the government. (Tesla was not, BTW)

Very telling.
I guess no one believes in JFK's famous "ask not...." speech anymore.

btw, I was speaking of direct subsidies to individuals and not to industries but I think you realize that.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Here is an interesting video of Fords Lightning towing 7500 pounds 8 miles up then down in the mountains. They also towed with a Chevy with the 6.2L. Things to note....the Chevy will be gasping because it is naturally aspirated. The EV is about out of juice going up but charges on the way down.

I hope he will redo this pull it 80,000 pounds with a Tesla tractor

 

[Fixastuff]

One thing I've learned in life, if a person gets tax credits, subsidies, help along the way they deserve it. Of someone else gets those same tax credits, subsidies, help along the way they're good for nothing welfare queens taking advantage of the system. Lol

 

[JasperFrank]

I guess this is exempt in California. LOL.

 

[JasperFrank]

Didn't a whole bunch of rich people and retirees, get Golf Carts for free on the early round of federal rebate incentives back in 2012?

 

[nickfank]

btw, I was speaking of direct subsidies to individuals and not to industries but I think you realize that.

In fact, I didn't realize that, and don't see the distinction. Industries are owned by individuals, the prices of products brought to market by industries are paid by individuals. When you pay less for a pound of beef because feed subsidies make it easier to produce beef than vegetables, that's a benefit to you as an individual. My neighbor drives a sweet truck that was more than paid for by Ag subsidies, but hey, agriculture is an *industry*, Eh?

I pay my taxes at an effective rate of 34% and don't complain (much). I know that on the average, I provide much more of my income to the government than most Americans, so it's likely I'm subsidizing others quite a bit more than they subsidize me. That's why it bugs me when someone takes offense at the fact that *gasp* I actually receive a government benefit once in a while.

But truly, I can't complain. I'm just surprised at how many complaints I hear from people tapping away on their personal computer without any imminent fear of starvation or violence.

 

[Pixguy]

In fact, I didn't realize that, and don't see the distinction. Industries are owned by individuals, the prices of products brought to market by industries are paid by individuals. When you pay less for a pound of beef because feed subsidies make it easier to produce beef than vegetables, that's a benefit to you as an individual. My neighbor drives a sweet truck that was more than paid for by Ag subsidies, but hey, agriculture is an *industry*, Eh?

I pay my taxes at an effective rate of 34% and don't complain (much). I know that on the average, I provide much more of my income to the government than most Americans, so it's likely I'm subsidizing others quite a bit more than they subsidize me. That's why it bugs me when someone takes offense at the fact that *gasp* I actually receive a government benefit once in a while.

But truly, I can't complain. I'm just surprised at how many complaints I hear from people tapping away on their personal computer without any imminent fear of starvation or violence.

Imminent fear of starvation or violence? Perhaps you should expound on that.

btw, we pay quarterly taxes and haven't filed an ez form in over 30yrs so I understand paying lots of taxes.

I'm truly surprised to see the amount of middle class folks who don't complain that the large majority of Tesla and other ev vehicles they are helping subsidize are being purchased by the affluent.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Imminent fear of starvation or violence? Perhaps you should expound on that.

btw, we pay quarterly taxes and haven't filed an ez form in over 30yrs so I understand paying lots of taxes.

I'm truly surprised to see the amount of middle class folks who don't complain that the large majority of Tesla and other ev vehicles they are helping subsidize are being purchased by the affluent.

We are supportive of our doctors snd lawyers locally.

 

[Fixastuff]

Imminent fear of starvation or violence? Perhaps you should expound on that.

btw, we pay quarterly taxes and haven't filed an ez form in over 30yrs so I understand paying lots of taxes.

I'm truly surprised to see the amount of middle class folks who don't complain that the large majority of Tesla and other ev vehicles they are helping subsidize are being purchased by the affluent.

Complaining about taxes is like complaining about having to take a dump because you eat. It doesn't do any good. A 7kish tax subsidie for buying a ev is such small change in our tax problems anyway. Tax code needs to be simple. End the credits, write offs etc and make it so anyone can get the most out of their situation with out having to hire a cpa/tax lawyer.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

3 options in electrified cars.