Anyone have a small hydro electric system?

[Ktm rider]

I have researched micro hydro for at least 10 years now. This fall we decided with the current political climate that it was time to pull the trigger.
My stream produces 500 gpm+ at it’s peak and down to a slight trickle in the summer. I designed it to take advantage for the Dec-may peak. It should produce roughly 3kw continuous. With this power I can power and heat my whole house.
I have 2 turbines custom built to my stream specs by Langston Alternative Power. as stated earlier I get 500 gpm of flow and 60ft of head in a 1,000 ft run of 8” pipe. Up at the house is a 12k Growatt hybrid inverter and six LifePo 4 batteries capable of storing 30kwh.
I also have 20 Solar panels that will be installed as soon as I get the hydro completed. Right now I’m racing the winter weather.

I also read in a few posts above about the maintenance involved. Well, if you design I the system right there really isn’t any maintenance to speak of. The key is keeping debris out of the penstock and turbine. That can be done with a Coanda screen.
You can buy the whole coanda box but they are super pricy. So, I ordered just the screen and built my own box for it out of concrete and saved about 5k ! I added a pic of my weir and coanda box and the hardest part of the whole project, burying the 8” pipe Cree side in the giant rock garden.
Anyhoo, here are a few pics of my progress

 

[Roric]

I have researched micro hydro for at least 10 years now. This fall we decided with the current political climate that it was time to pull the trigger.
My stream produces 500 gpm+ at it’s peak and down to a slight trickle in the summer. I designed it to take advantage for the Dec-may peak. It should produce roughly 3kw continuous. With this power I can power and heat my whole house.
I have 2 turbines custom built to my stream specs by Langston Alternative Power. as stated earlier I get 500 gpm of flow and 60ft of head in a 1,000 ft run of 8” pipe. Up at the house is a 12k Growatt hybrid inverter and six LifePo 4 batteries capable of storing 30kwh.
I also have 20 Solar panels that will be installed as soon as I get the hydro completed. Right now I’m racing the winter weather.

I also read in a few posts above about the maintenance involved. Well, if you design I the system right there really isn’t any maintenance to speak of. The key is keeping debris out of the penstock and turbine. That can be done with a Coanda screen.
You can buy the whole coanda box but they are super pricy. So, I ordered just the screen and built my own box for it out of concrete and saved about 5k ! I added a pic of my weir and coanda box and the hardest part of the whole project, burying the 8” pipe Cree side in the giant rock garden.
Anyhoo, here are a few pics of my progress

That is a great deal of power.
3000 X 24 hours equals 72 kilowatt hours per day.
Solar panels: 20 X 350 watts equals 7000 watts, about 8500 kwh a year or 23 per day.
That is almost 100kwh/day.

My experience:

20 375-watt solar panels=7500-watt output to a 7600-watt inverter. Output is about 9100 per
year or about 25kwh per day. (Grid-tied, no battery).

The output powers a 2600 Sq. foot house with all electric kitchens (2) electric laundries (2)
and Mini split AC. We get a little heat from the Mini split, but our boiler is natural gas.
We also power a plug-in-hybrid car (about 12,000 miles per year).

We have produced as much power as we use since we turned the solar on 3 years ago.
This is not in sunny California, it is in central Minnesota.

When I find lights left on, I turn them off and say to The One Who Must Be Obeyed:
"Do you think we get free electricity around here?" (From when we had kids in the house)
She says "Yes, yes I do."

Your milage may vary.

Best of luck
regards,
R

 

[Ktm rider]

That is a great deal of power.
3000 X 24 hours equals 72 kilowatt hours per day.
Solar panels: 20 X 350 watts equals 7000 watts, about 8500 kwh a year or 23 per day.
That is almost 100kwh/day.

My experience:

20 375-watt solar panels=7500-watt output to a 7600-watt inverter. Output is about 9100 per
year or about 25kwh per day. (Grid-tied, no battery).

The output powers a 2600 Sq. foot house with all electric kitchens (2) electric laundries (2)
and Mini split AC. We get a little heat from the Mini split, but our boiler is natural gas.
We also power a plug-in-hybrid car (about 12,000 miles per year).

We have produced as much power as we use since we turned the solar on 3 years ago.
This is not in sunny California, it is in central Minnesota.

 

[Ktm rider]

Roric,
keep in mind this is my max output Which will easily come in the winter when my stream is raging. We plan on running our whole house and heat pump which I actually just got today. ( mrcool 4/5 ton universal system ) my inverter is a dual phase 12k. 7k on each leg max. My solar panels are 230v which I hope will come close to powering the house in the summer. Keeping in mind that we live in the mountains and don’t have A/C and don’t plan to run the new AC/ heat pump in the summer.

 

[sandman2234]

So whatever happened to those water wheels that used to be in the path of a stream, that generated energy for so many different uses?
David from jax

 

[bdhsfz6]

I'm following this thread with great interest since I would dearly love to install hydro, wind and or solar power generation on my property. Due to my situation however, the initial cost and return on investment are a big problem for me.

No mater which method I choose, I won't be able to generate enough power to completely serve my needs so I will have to rely on the grid to make up the difference. I would have to use my home generated power as a supplement which means adding more wiring & equipment to interface the two sources.

Generating the power is one thing, storing it is another. Batteries are expensive and increase maintenance costs. Using the grid as a storage medium is another option but where I live, solar is the only source accepted by the local power company. The energy generated is used to offset usage and appears as a credit on my electric bill.

A lot has been said here about generating power but little about it's storage and practical use. How do those with operating systems deal with these issues?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have.

 

[sandman2234]

I'm following this thread with great interest since I would dearly love to install hydro, wind and or solar power generation on my property. Due to my situation however, the initial cost and return on investment are a big problem for me.

No mater which method I choose, I won't be able to generate enough power to completely serve my needs so I will have to rely on the grid to make up the difference. I would have to use my home generated power as a supplement which means adding more wiring & equipment to interface the two sources.

Generating the power is one thing, storing it is another. Batteries are expensive and increase maintenance costs. Using the grid as a storage medium is another option but where I live, solar is the only source accepted by the local power company. The energy generated is used to offset usage and appears as a credit on my electric bill.

A lot has been said here about generating power but little about it's storage and practical use. How do those with operating systems deal with these issues?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have.

Offsetting the grid with hydro, solar or wind is one thing, being able to store that power for when you "want it" is another. I think hydro is a more 24 hour a day source than solar or wind, but apparently it's use becomes a seasonal source rather than a day/night source. Rather than trying to store it, a lot of people use backup power for when they need power and their wind/solar/hydro aren't supplying power if they can't pull it from the grid.
My Sister in CA has enough solar capacity to run her whole house plus some, but if the grid goes down at night, their 22KW generator fires up and runs. Batteries would require an additional investment and maintenance issues that would affect their "retired lifestyle".
We all have to choose what we have available and what works for us, within our means.
David from jax

 

[/pine]

It's been nearly fifty years since we bought this property on a mountain river...At the time I looked into it and was told that at least 11 feet of fall would be required to harness enough energy to make it worthwhile...and then there was the issue of dealing with high water during storm floods etc..

 

[Ktm rider]

I'm following this thread with great interest since I would dearly love to install hydro, wind and or solar power generation on my property. Due to my situation however, the initial cost and return on investment are a big problem for me.

No mater which method I choose, I won't be able to generate enough power to completely serve my needs so I will have to rely on the grid to make up the difference. I would have to use my home generated power as a supplement which means adding more wiring & equipment to interface the two sources.

Generating the power is one thing, storing it is another. Batteries are expensive and increase maintenance costs. Using the grid as a storage medium is another option but where I live, solar is the only source accepted by the local power company. The energy generated is used to offset usage and appears as a credit on my electric bill.

A lot has been said here about generating power but little about it's storage and practical use. How do those with operating systems deal with these issues?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have.

you might be surprised the amount of power your creek can generate. Have you done any measurements? If so what are they? As far as storing the power, in my system I have six LifePo4 lithium phosphate batteries. You’re right that they are very expensive, they were the single biggest expense in my entire system. However, there is no maintenance at all with these batteries.
i Don’t understand what you mean when you say you would have to use your generator also ( unless you plan on going totally offgrid)
my inverter will “blend” power from the grid if for some reason I’m not making enough power with my system.
if you wanna discuss further you can PM ,me and i will give you a call. I am by no means a professional and I also have a lot to learn about it but I’ll answer what I can and I can turn you on to the guy I bought all my equipment from. He is a pro and has been working with this stuff for years

 

[Ktm rider]

It's been nearly fifty years since we bought this property on a mountain river...At the time I looked into it and was told that at least 11 feet of fall would be required to harness enough energy to make it worthwhile...and then there was the issue of dealing with high water during storm floods etc..

You may want to look into it again. you can make power with very little head if you have decent flow. That low head turbines have come a long way recently

 

[Ktm rider]

My Sister in CA has enough solar capacity to run her whole house plus some, but if the grid goes down at night, their 22KW generator fires up and runs. Batteries would require an additional investment and maintenance issues that would affect their "retired lifestyle".
We all have to choose what we have available and what works for us, within our means.
David from jax

wait, wouldn’t the 22kw generator cost a pretty penny ? Then the fuel costs in todays prices would add up quickly.
While the new lithium phosphates are very pricey there is virtually zero maintenance involved. They are leaps and bounds better than lead acid batteries and even AGM batteries.

 

[check]

I could generate lots of power in the Spring, when the creek directly in front of my place just roars, but not in the summer when it goes down to a trickle.

 

[bdhsfz6]

you might be surprised the amount of power your creek can generate. Have you done any measurements? If so what are they? As far as storing the power, in my system I have six LifePo4 lithium phosphate batteries. You’re right that they are very expensive, they were the single biggest expense in my entire system. However, there is no maintenance at all with these batteries.
i Don’t understand what you mean when you say you would have to use your generator also ( unless you plan on going totally offgrid)
my inverter will “blend” power from the grid if for some reason I’m not making enough power with my system.
if you wanna discuss further you can PM ,me and i will give you a call. I am by no means a professional and I also have a lot to learn about it but I’ll answer what I can and I can turn you on to the guy I bought all my equipment from. He is a pro and has been working with this stuff for years

When I said home "generated power", I was referring to the hydro, wind or solar options, not a backup generator.

Blending equipment must be approved by the local power company, as does anything connected to the grid. It is a possibility though depending on the cost, but I'll look into it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[ponytug]

FWIW: I have roughly 40kWh of battery storage attached to our solar (a grid tied system). Costs on batteries have come way down, and there are reasonable options these days to roll your own battery from an electric car battery, e.g. a Leaf, especially if you aren't connected to the grid any longer.

A small hydropower system and batteries go a long, long way toward grid independence, and adding in a different source, e.g. solar can make a huge difference. 6kW of solar makes us grid positive for the year, and energy exporters for about eight months of the year.

The flip side to generating is consumption. You can get by on less power, if you have gone through your home to make it efficient. (LED lights, well insulated, etc.) I know of one person who put a cheap power controller ($40) on a chest freezer to make it into a refrigerator that used something like 160Wh of energy per day to keep his food cool. Of course, there are trade offs in terms of costs in efficiency vs adding more generating power and storage. I find these decisions are very local, what meets your needs will be different from the next person's needs.

Don't forget to look around for local energy programs and grants. About 90% of our battery and installation costs, wiring, two new service panels, breakers, etc., were paid for by our utility.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Roric]

I am a believer in lithium battery storage but found them to be too high priced. Even with a tax credit,
it was not a good fit for my grid-tied system. I bought a 5200/4000-watt inverter generator to be used in case of a power outage.
We have lost power rarely here, except for intermittent hiccups. Installed a twist lock receptacle and a manual transfer switch. It should cover emergency demands of our house including 240-volt loads such as the well pump and lift pump. Load calculations says lights and heating will be covered too.

I may go with the batteries at a later date, but I hope that soon electric cars will be able to provide power to the grid and power to the home. Then my battery back-up will be in the car in the garage.

Things never move as fast as I am led to believe. I still await my flying car. Oh well.

Regards,

R

 

[sandman2234]

wait, wouldn’t the 22kw generator cost a pretty penny ? Then the fuel costs in todays prices would add up quickly.
While the new lithium phosphates are very pricey there is virtually zero maintenance involved. They are leaps and bounds better than lead acid batteries and even AGM batteries.

Yes, the 22KW generator costs a pretty penny, and isn't cheap to run, but it is only needed when the grid is down at night. The solar panels carry the house during the day, but don't do much in the dark. They could have gone with batteries instead of the generator, but a generator maintenance program is cheaper than the battery maintenance program!
David from jax

 

[Ktm rider]

I could generate lots of power in the Spring, when the creek directly in front of my place just roars, but not in the summer when it goes down to a trickle.

That’s exactly why I added 20 solar panels in my system

 

[Ktm rider]

Here is a pic of my weir and Coanda box. This is my typical flow from now till June. I don’t have the valve open yet in this video however but everything looks great up at this end

 

[MossRoad]

You may want to look into it again. you can make power with very little head if you have decent flow. That low head turbines have come a long way recently

Yep, you need force. That's developed by drop (head) or flow (gallons/feet per minute). We have a creek on our property that has neither. It only drops maybe an inch in a couple hundred yards on our place. Only about a 2-3 mph flow. If I could dam it up, and force it through a pipe, I could get some force, but that's agains the law here, as it's a county ditch and would back-flood people up stream.

 

[MossRoad]

Here is a pic of my weir and Coanda box. This is my typical flow from now till June. I don’t have the valve open yet in this video however but everything looks great up at this end

Boy that's nice!