Generator wiring

   / Generator wiring #41  
What I'm saying is if someone is so concerned with death or injury from electrocution they should be MUCH MORE concerned with death or injury from driving.
Correct?
Note that my post #6 my advice to the OP is decide what he wants, cleaning up the main panel...bringing it up to modern code...that's best left to an electrician.
Here, the very rare cases I've used my generator things are done in sequence. A few neighbors had Generac systems installed which to me is ludicrous.
Why should they be more concerned about driving? So what if more people get injured or killed while driving compared to electrocutions? How many people are hurt driving compared to how many hours of driving? Then how many people are electrocuted compared to how many hours working on stuff that can electrocute them? I don't know the answer. But in order to judge which is the most dangerous using only the number of injured or killed then the number of people doing the thing that injures or kills must also be known. So your conclusion from the information you posted is incorrect.
 
   / Generator wiring #42  
This whole conversation has gone off the rails! No one understands statistics, when or what to be concerned or worry about...it's insanity at it's finest! Does anyone understand common sense logic?
1) Post 1: The synopsis of a lengthy post by the OP is (quote): "I would love to disconnect (and ultimately remove) all connections to individual circuits from the gen panel to the main panel."
2) my reply Post 6: (quote): "this is a case where paying an electrician I would do."
3) my reply Post 13:(quote): "I'd decide what you want to do and have an electrician do it. My 2c."
4) Post 20: how I use my generator on extremely rare occasions
5) Post 25: (quote) "Following all the steps each time carefully you are correct." Then (paraphrased) wife wants to watch soap operas, flips breakers, I forget sequence of connections, my wife or brother in law (which I have no brother in law) gets electrocuted, or an arc flash occurs, or linesman gets electrocuted, then funerals to attend, then some guy blows up his generator buy throwing the breaker, then the utility company pulls meter from an improper installation and inspection.
I believe everyone should fight among yourselves within this lunatic asylum!
6) Now...just for the OP...CALL AN ELECTRICIAN!!!!!
 
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   / Generator wiring #43  
This is a little off topic, but I bet some of you know the answer. I just bought a house built in 1979. It has a generator hook-up, but the realtor said it has never been used--not part of the issue. It was installed and wired by a reputable local electrician. Attached to the generator cable connection box is a 12-circuit load panel with a double 60 being incoming power from the main load center and a double 20 being incoming from the generator connection. The remaining 12 breakers (some are tandems) are wired to individual circuits in the main panel.

What this amounts to is circuit A being a black and white wire leaving the main panel, (but still long enough to go around the perimeter of the panel as originally wired) , but powered by a yellow (or any other color) wire from a breaker in the gen panel to the black wire, and a white wire from the gen panel to the white wire in the circuit A. With 12 out-going breakers in the gen panel there are 24 additional wires entering the main panel and wire-nutted to the existing black and white out-going wires PLUS there are circuits in the main panel that are not connected to the gen panel. The congestion of wires in the main panel is beyond anything I have ever seen.

Despite having power outages a few times per year, I have never felt it necessary to buy a generator, and I have no experience with them. I would think that a generator would just push juice into the main panel replacing what normally comes from the grid. Clearly the gen won't put out the everyday amperage, so the homeowner needs to determine what he wants to run--the water pump, freezer, refrig and furnace , but not every light and appliance in the house.

I would love to disconnect (and ultimately remove) all connections to individual circuits from the gen panel to the main panel. I am not an electrician, but I feel perfectly comfortable inside a 30 circuit 150 amp panel. Is there some good reason why I must retain this multi-colored bowl of spaghetti in my load center?
The answer to your question is no you do not need to keep the mess, secondly it is acode violation as is A the panel is not allowed to be a junction box. B. You have to have an interlock to keep you from back feeding the utility line. I recommend you hire an electrician.
I am an electrical enengeering P. E.
Good luck
 
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   / Generator wiring #44  
I fool with generators often. First one is an Allis Chalmers 50 kw at my shop. It does single and three phase with a brushless generator. Second one I just put a circuit board in because it wasn't coming on weekly for its self check, 175 kw. Then after I had it working, the power went off two days later. The pull on solenoid was not holding throttle open. It was 21 years old, so I had a dandy of a time finding one. Finally did, but it was different. Had to use the guts out of old one and magnet coil from new one to make it work. Had to fix it, farm owner was ready to pull the trigger on another lightly used one for 30 grand. Third one is fine. Welder needed a circuit board. I have another welder, a few years older, that needs an exciter or stuck brushes, have not investigated it yet. Runs fine but no weld, only sparks. Electricians call me to go on big farm generator calls, because they don't know much about them. So when you have 25,000 chickens that Tyson wants $23.00 each for, it becomes critical. Generator runs two houses. 12,500 birds in each house. If you get them automatic transfer switches, ants love them things. They won't work with ants around. Just had two houses die a few months ago, not me, a customer. Chickens dead in 30 minutes. Their houses are full tunnel and don't have the side curtains like the one pictured. Side curtains have an automatic drop in case of a no power situation. So, power went off, gen was not on, no fans moving air, all birds died. Generator did not come on. Turns out they were using fuel from generator tank to run the tractors. Plus the weekly self check uses fuel too. Generator tank was empty and I can't fix that problem. That is their responsibility as a farm owner to keep the tank full. Which, they had 6 houses, I just tore down three of theirs that collapsed in the 18" snow we had. I'm fine with them using fuel out of gen tank because it keeps fresh fuel in there. But, it has to be kept topped off.

I don't see a problem with the situation you have. Maybe look into understanding it instead of undoing it. Since generators became popular, power companies ground out the wires they are working on. That will toast your generator. Just turn utility main off on your side of meter. Crank generator and turn the breakers on that you need. When power comes back on, turn off generator breakers, turn on utility breakers. I see no problem with that. Seems a simple trouble free experience. Or, you can go automatic, and it gilflirts when you need it, and you wait on a "specialized technician" that can figure out all the load sensors. Then when it (technician) shows up, you done froze for a week and power is back on anyway. That 1979 stuff ain't so bad. I drove to Alaska and everywhere else I want to go in a 1976 pickup, recently. If I leave my driveway and turn south, 21 miles to Louisiana.
The system he describes is a walking talking code violation, that is a fact not an opinion. The instilation needs to be un-installed and corrected.
 
   / Generator wiring #45  
The few times I run our 9kW portable generator I simply go in this order:
1) Turn main and all breakers off in main panel box, (except to garage 250 ft.away.)
2) Connect generator to welder outlet, leaving just garage main and welder breaker on.
3) Run generator.
4) At house turn well pump and water heater breaker on, as well as refrigerator.
5) Meter display let's me know when power is restored. A pilot light on main breaker meter side does same thing.
6) Shut generator off.
7) Disconnect generator.
8) Garage breakers on.
9) Main breaker on and others in main box.
If you let your utility company know about this you will not have power to your home untill you correct it.
 
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   / Generator wiring #46  
Everyone's situation is different. I'm not going to change the way I do things just to appease a scenario that doesn't exist! Anyone is welcome installing anything they wish here at their expense. It's just the two of us here, no kids, brother in law etc., no use in fantasy dreams not based in reality. My wife is a smart lady, retired technician who knows not to flip breakers on if/when generator is running.
Two disconnect switches: manual and automatic. The main breaker IS a manual disconnect switch. Now automatic...does anyone believe they're 100% fail-safe? Could it malfunction? Personally I'm much rather have a manual disconnect.
Finally, the very few times we've lost power an electric company tech goes door to door making sure generators are off before power is restored!
Now orezok...your turn making up fantasy stories, you can tell us about funerals, flower arrangements and kinds of hearses.
Go for it.
I understand, but you have a code violation of your own making not my place to be the TBN electrical hall monitor but be aware that you will be personally liable for any accidents that may occure. In my Profesional opinion you need to bring that up to code.
 
   / Generator wiring #47  
What I'm saying is if someone is so concerned with death or injury from electrocution they should be MUCH MORE concerned with death or injury from driving.
Correct?
Note that my post #6 my advice to the OP is decide what he wants, cleaning up the main panel...bringing it up to modern code...that's best left to an electrician.
Here, the very rare cases I've used my generator things are done in sequence. A few neighbors had Generac systems installed which to me is ludicrous.
There is a difrance between an accident and neglengence and another between negligence and willful neglengence.
 
   / Generator wiring #48  
Everyone's situation is different. I'm not going to change the way I do things just to appease a scenario that doesn't exist! Anyone is welcome installing anything they wish here at their expense. It's just the two of us here, no kids, brother in law etc., no use in fantasy dreams not based in reality. My wife is a smart lady, retired technician who knows not to flip breakers on if/when generator is running.
Two disconnect switches: manual and automatic. The main breaker IS a manual disconnect switch. Now automatic...does anyone believe they're 100% fail-safe? Could it malfunction? Personally I'm much rather have a manual disconnect.
Finally, the very few times we've lost power an electric company tech goes door to door making sure generators are off before power is restored!
Now orezok...your turn making up fantasy stories, you can tell us about funerals, flower arrangements and kinds of hearses.
Go for it.
Bless your heart
 
   / Generator wiring #49  
What I'm saying is if someone is so concerned with death or injury from electrocution they should be MUCH MORE concerned with death or injury from driving.
Correct?
Not so much if you are driving with defective brakes. Hmmmm
 
   / Generator wiring #50  
There is a difrance between an accident and neglengence and another between negligence and willful neglengence.
I'll reply to DaBear's three posts.
WHAT CODE VIOLATION AM I COMMITING?
Send me a PM, I'll send you my information, the name and number of my power company and/or county inspection department and you can report me, making a fool of yourself!
Explain to the audience my code violation(s)?
 

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