Looking for info - 3 point log splitter

   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #1  

chris85

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Massachusetts
Tractor
LS MT226E
I have a 3 point log splitter I want to use with my Jinma 284, since there are no auxiliary hydraulic ports I connect it to the lines for the fel. It works ok but the cycle time on the splitter is very slow, slower than my gas powered splitter is. I had a friend suggest that the fel lines may not provide the proper pressure. Additionally this connection isn't ideal since I cannot move the tractor until I reconnect the fel. Does anyone have any experience with this or suggestions?
Thank you.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #2  
not sure about the connections but that is the nature of the beast especially on small compact tractors. They just don't have the hydraulic flow to run a splitter very fast especially one with a large cylinder.

I don't think you will get more speed out of it by changing where you tap into the hydraulic system.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #3  
The flow rate (GPM) will determine the speed of ram movement, and if pressure (PSI) is not there you lack tonnage to split...
Went through this with MF GC 1715 and after the numbers, with about 6.8 GPM and 1960 PSI descided even (theoretically) adding power beyond (PB) it just would not would be effective....
Actually salvaged a used stand alone splitter (20 ton) with blown motor (replaced) and am very happy with it, and leaves tractor available for moving large rounds and split wood.....
And yes if you added power beyond to run splitter, you might get an increase, but I seriously doubt it will be as efficient as your stand alone splitter...
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #4  
Tractor’s hydraulic pressure (& the diameter/area of the hydraulic cylinder it is pressing on) will determine the force produced. That is: 2000 psi (pounds per square inch) on a 20 square inch cylinder would produce 40,000 lbs (20 tons) of force.

Flow (rate) will determine the speed (and cycle times). That is how long does it take fluid to fill the volume of the cylinder. Volume being a function of cylinders diameter and stroke length. So if that 20 sq. in cylinder strokes 30 inches, you need 600 cubic inches of oil (x gallons) flowing into the cylinder. The time span you want to do this in determines what the GPM needs to be.

What is tractor’s hydraulic pump GPM?
What is size of the cylinder?
What is hydraulic pressure?
 
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   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #5  
Looks like your tractor has about 4 gpm hydraulic flow. Unless your splitter has about a 3 inch cylinder, it's going to be slow.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I sincerely appreciate all the replies and information. Would adding a tank and attaching to the pto pump be an option (similar to how my backhoe works)
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #7  
I sincerely appreciate all the replies and information. Would adding a tank and attaching to the pto pump be an option (similar to how my backhoe works)
Yup, that's how mine is set up,

Resized-20220815-132328-S.jpg


The size of the pto pump will determine speed, as long as the hoses, ports ect. aren't restricting the flow.

SR
 
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   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #8  
I sincerely appreciate all the replies and information. Would adding a tank and attaching to the pto pump be an option (similar to how my backhoe works)

Yes. …but where are the tank and pto pump? Something to be added onto the 3 point hitch mounted splitter? Is there room? At that point, you’re just one small gas motor away from independent standalone splitter.

Many woodsplitters use a 2 stage pump so that: cycle times are quicker on the return & unloaded forward stroke; and demand less power & torque from the engine when splitting.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #9  
I sincerely appreciate all the replies and information. Would adding a tank and attaching to the pto pump be an option (similar to how my backhoe works)
Absolutely, there are auxiliary power plants available as kit systems. They're pricy though, and I've seen very few that include a driveshaft, so you'll have that cost too. The pumps alone can be forward of $1000, and you still don't have anything to attach it or a reservoir of oil, or hoses to connect in between. I would still recommend buying an assembled system unless you have plenty time on your hands and have a lot of different skill sets in hydraulics, welding, plumbing, etc. etc. Ask yourself "Is there any part of this I cannot do?" If the answer is yes, make sure you know someone who does, or plan for failures. By the time you finish spending money to avoid buying a splitter, you'll probably have spent enough to buy 3 of them. And one other thing to consider. When you get a good one, you're gonna want a better one, especially if you start splitting for friends/relatives/money. You can spend as much money as you want on most anything tractor related.

Like many others I went down this road, too, trying to reduce the number of small engines I have to maintain. While everyone else is telling you good information about pressure and flow to the cylinder, I haven't seen anyone bring up the amount of horsepower required to do that. A large cylinder that needs a lot of pressure and flow is gonna take a fairly large prime mover and pump to do it, assuming you want something that will split anything you throw at it. Hose size will affect flow, as will valve selection (port sizes on the valve) and manifold configuration. If you see one that will do 20000 pounds of force with a 6.5HP engine on it, it probably won't be very fast. Pressure is just that, pressure, and the relief on the pump will prevent it from stalling the engine, meaning the ram just stopped. If you get high pressure from a small engine, you typically won't get high flow.

Building a splitter from scratch can get very involved, as well as dangerous. When things break with 40,000 pounds of force on them, there's usually significant collateral damage. If you have an old one that needs a new powerplant, then a PTO pump and auxiliary tank may not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, you'll have to something about moving the tank and the splitter. There are 3 point splitters out there, but I strongly advise against one that shares oil with your tractor. That's a big cylinder, and a wonderful place to collect moisture and other things you don't want in your tractor. That's a lot of oil. An external pump is the way I'd handle it. The cost of a 3 point hitch mounted splitter isn't too far off the cost of a good premium grade stand-alone. I've shopped a lot, and I don't have one simply because I don't have a fire place. I just cut the rounds short enough I can split them fairly easily with an axe, or hammer and wedges if absolutely necessary.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #10  
Absolutely, there are auxiliary power plants available as kit systems. They're pricy though, and I've seen very few that include a driveshaft, so you'll have that cost too. The pumps alone can be forward of $1000, and you still don't have anything to attach it or a reservoir of oil, or hoses to connect in between. I would still recommend buying an assembled system unless you have plenty time on your hands and have a lot of different skill sets in hydraulics, welding, plumbing, etc. etc. Ask yourself "Is there any part of this I cannot do?" If the answer is yes, make sure you know someone who does, or plan for failures. By the time you finish spending money to avoid buying a splitter, you'll probably have spent enough to buy 3 of them. And one other thing to consider. When you get a good one, you're gonna want a better one, especially if you start splitting for friends/relatives/money. You can spend as much money as you want on most anything tractor related.

Like many others I went down this road, too, trying to reduce the number of small engines I have to maintain. While everyone else is telling you good information about pressure and flow to the cylinder, I haven't seen anyone bring up the amount of horsepower required to do that. A large cylinder that needs a lot of pressure and flow is gonna take a fairly large prime mover and pump to do it, assuming you want something that will split anything you throw at it. Hose size will affect flow, as will valve selection (port sizes on the valve) and manifold configuration. If you see one that will do 20000 pounds of force with a 6.5HP engine on it, it probably won't be very fast. Pressure is just that, pressure, and the relief on the pump will prevent it from stalling the engine, meaning the ram just stopped. If you get high pressure from a small engine, you typically won't get high flow.

Building a splitter from scratch can get very involved, as well as dangerous. When things break with 40,000 pounds of force on them, there's usually significant collateral damage. If you have an old one that needs a new powerplant, then a PTO pump and auxiliary tank may not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, you'll have to something about moving the tank and the splitter. There are 3 point splitters out there, but I strongly advise against one that shares oil with your tractor. That's a big cylinder, and a wonderful place to collect moisture and other things you don't want in your tractor. That's a lot of oil. An external pump is the way I'd handle it. The cost of a 3 point hitch mounted splitter isn't too far off the cost of a good premium grade stand-alone. I've shopped a lot, and I don't have one simply because I don't have a fire place. I just cut the rounds short enough I can split them fairly easily with an axe, or hammer and wedges if absolutely necessary.
20,000 pounds... That is only 10 ton..... Seriously I have a 20 ton splitter (40,000 pound force) with 6.5 HP motor and it is fast enough that I have to step back sometimes and take a breather... Speed of operation is pretty much decided on by user, other than small systems are generally slow.... Also good retract detent on control valve is great option as you can pop it into "retract mode" and move towards getting another round to place in splitter while it is retracting and you don't have to stand there and manipulate it....
 
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   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Yes. …but where are the tank and pto pump? Something to be added onto the 3 point hitch mounted splitter? Is there room? At that point, you’re just one small gas motor away from independent standalone splitter.

Many woodsplitters use a 2 stage pump so that: cycle times are quicker on the return & unloaded forward stroke; and demand less power & torque from the engine when splitting.
The PTO pump is located right above the PTO at the 3 point hitch so real easy to connect, there is room for a tank along side. I'll have to see what the flow rate is to determine if it will be the same issue. There are no wheels one this one so it can't be "stand alone" and I would still need a motor, pump and connections. I hate small engines, the carbs always gum up and become a problem.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #12  
20,000 pounds... That is only 10 ton..... Seriously I have a 20 ton splitter (40,000 pound force) with 6.5 HP motor and it is fast enough that I have to step back sometimes and take a breather... Speed of operation is pretty much decided on by user, other than small systems are generally slow.... Also good retract detent on control valve is great option as you can pop it into "retract mode" and move towards getting another round to place in splitter while it is retracting and you don't have to stand there and manipulate it....
I just threw out a small number for the very reasons you state. The bottom line is, if you want speed, you have to have flow. If you want force, you have to have pressure. If you want both, you have to have both, and the horsepower to handle it. Force can be had with larger cylinders, but that also slows down the speed. As you say, the speed will be more dictated by how young the back is that's doing the moving. Some folks simply don't get that a slow moving cylinder may be preventing them from hurting themselves. Why get in a hurry anyway? On a bad day, you can probably still split enough wood to last at least a couple weeks. If you're running out of wood, you probably should have cut and split a little more often.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter
  • Thread Starter
#13  
It seems to have the power to split, it's never stopped regardless what I throw at it even with a four way wedge, it's just really slow.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #14  
It seems to have the power to split, it's never stopped regardless what I throw at it even with a four way wedge, it's just really slow.

At 4.2 GPM even at its rated 2200PSI it's going to be slow, a kid on a tricycle will be faster.....


If you want speed and insist or retaining 3PH option, yes a different pump and fluid reservoir is probably the answer....





In actuality you are going to build a 3PH system that is identical to hydraulics of stand alone splitter....

Hydrauic Diagram.jpg
 
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   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #15  
It seems to have the power to split, it's never stopped regardless what I throw at it even with a four way wedge, it's just really slow.
That mostly suggests a flow issue, but that may be by design as well. Sometimes, though, if the ram can't move fast enough, or the edge isn't sharp enough, it will ball up the fibers of the wood and stall out before it finishes the split. That's when it's DANGEROUS. That log can squirt out of there with amazing velocity and a whole lotta inertia. It's going to break most anything it hits, including you if you're in it's path. Use caution with that thing and always try to keep something between you and it when splitting. I'd be interested to see your build.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #16  
That mostly suggests a flow issue, but that may be by design as well. Sometimes, though, if the ram can't move fast enough, or the edge isn't sharp enough, it will ball up the fibers of the wood and stall out before it finishes the split. That's when it's DANGEROUS. That log can squirt out of there with amazing velocity and a whole lotta inertia. It's going to break most anything it hits, including you if you're in it's path. Use caution with that thing and always try to keep something between you and it when splitting. I'd be interested to see your build.

I can attest to it squirting out a round it cant split..... Been nursing a dislocated thumb the round intersected with when it popped out of splitter.....
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #17  
I built this splitter several years ago. Worked like a champ. Tractor PTO power was never a problem on a 30hp tractor. Ran it about half throttle. I don't recall exact cycle times but it was pretty quick.

Tried to give you pics of the logistics involved. I've got more if interested.

I lost this splitter and tractor in a shop fire. Have trailer mounted now.


DSC00881.JPG




DSC00878.JPG




DSC00876.JPG




DSC00870.JPG
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter
  • Thread Starter
#18  
I built this splitter several years ago. Worked like a champ. Tractor PTO power was never a problem on a 30hp tractor. Ran it about half throttle. I don't recall exact cycle times but it was pretty quick.

Tried to give you pics of the logistics involved. I've got more if interested.

I lost this splitter and tractor in a shop fire. Have trailer mounted now.


View attachment 774330



View attachment 774331



View attachment 774332



View attachment 774333
Awesome job, Thank you !
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #19  
I built this splitter several years ago. Worked like a champ. Tractor PTO power was never a problem on a 30hp tractor. Ran it about half throttle. I don't recall exact cycle times but it was pretty quick.

Tried to give you pics of the logistics involved. I've got more if interested.

I lost this splitter and tractor in a shop fire. Have trailer mounted now.


View attachment 774330



View attachment 774331



View attachment 774332



View attachment 774333
That's a spiffy rig there. Good lookin' Wrangler in the background, too.
 
   / Looking for info - 3 point log splitter #20  
 

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