How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

[Eagle1]

I have a 12,000 gallon tank on top of the ridge, 300 foot about the main level. Just let it fill and then gravity does the rest. About 50 psi and the pump runs every week or 2 for a couple of hours.

 

[jyoutz]

If you have the space, multiple or large above ground storage tanks can also reduce the number of pump stop/start cycles. They can also boost water pressure on long pipe runs.

From a mechanical/hydraulic perspective this makes sense, but I have shied away from above ground storage tanks for my home well. I worry about biological contaminants developing in these systems during warm weather, especially when I’m traveling and the water is sitting in the tanks and not flowing for a week or two.

 

[stuckmotor]

From a mechanical/hydraulic perspective this makes sense, but I have shied away from above ground storage tanks for my home well. I worry about biological contaminants developing in these systems during warm weather, especially when I’m traveling and the water is sitting in the tanks and not flowing for a week or two.

That sounds ideal. Do you have problems with algae or anything growing in the tank?

 

[jyoutz]

That sounds ideal. Do you have problems with algae or anything growing in the tank?

No. I don’t have a storage tank, just a pressure tank and a variable speed pump controller.

 

[Egon]

Without an elevation difference for head a storage vessel will still have a pump that recycles frequently.

 

[ponytug]

From a mechanical/hydraulic perspective this makes sense, but I have shied away from above ground storage tanks for my home well. I worry about biological contaminants developing in these systems during warm weather, especially when I’m traveling and the water is sitting in the tanks and not flowing for a week or two.

That sounds ideal. Do you have problems with algae or anything growing in the tank?

Around here, storage tanks are the norm, and in most places without city water, required. The older regulations were for 10,000 gallons of storage, and certain minimum flow rates for fire. Newer regulations require 30,000 gallons of storage, or 10,000 plus sprinklers throughout the residence.

Tanks are typically HDPE plastic in green or black to suppress algae growth. I chlorinate the tanks once a year or so, or after working on the pipes. We haven't ever had anything grow, or be detected in the water.

I like the system; the well pump fills the tanks and then gravity flow suffices for everything else, except the house, where we have a booster pump. We can, and have, done without the booster pump, but 25psi, low flow showers can take awhile... There is a full flow sediment filter at the well pump that removes any sand or clay that comes up, and the backwash from the filter dumps into livestock troughs. Overall, it has been low maintenance.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Valveman]

Valveman, you are not wrong, but the context of the post by bhshb26 above is to use several 200–500-gallon tanks (non-pressurized) as reservoirs to draw from.

Yes this is a two pump system but the main well pump runs to fill say 200-300 gallons, then another pump on the tank supports the house demand. This can be a solution for low volume/output wells etc.

Sorry I missed that. It is unusual to have that many storage tanks ganged together, but I can see where it might be much less expensive than one huge tank. No matter if it is one big tank or a gang of small tanks there needs to be enough water in the storage tank(s) as needed. It is not like a well with an unlimited supply of water. When pumping from storage tanks or a well a pressure tanks only purpose is to limit the on/off cycles of the pump. The water comes from the well and/or storage tanks, not the pressure tank. So, the pressure tank can be very small if you have some other way to limit the cycling like a Cycle Stop Valve. Even with multiple pumps of varying sizes the pumps will either cycle off and on no matter how large the pressure tank, or can be made to deliver constant pressure without cycling the same way.

 

[stuckmotor]

Around here, storage tanks are the norm, and in most places without city water, required. The older regulations were for 10,000 gallons of storage, and certain minimum flow rates for fire. Newer regulations require 30,000 gallons of storage, or 10,000 plus sprinklers throughout the residence.

Tanks are typically HDPE plastic in green or black to suppress algae growth. I chlorinate the tanks once a year or so, or after working on the pipes. We haven't ever had anything grow, or be detected in the water.

I like the system; the well pump fills the tanks and then gravity flow suffices for everything else, except the house, where we have a booster pump. We can, and have, done without the booster pump, but 25psi, low flow showers can take awhile... There is a full flow sediment filter at the well pump that removes any sand or clay that comes up, and the backwash from the filter dumps into livestock troughs. Overall, it has been low maintenance.

All the best,

Peter

That's good to know. I really like the gravity flow idea.

 

[Flogger]

Ours was put in 2 years ago. $18,000. 3 wire but not 3 phase. We get sulfur in our water here so we use the old air over water tank to help reduce sulfur smell. No bladder. Having to use a tank kind of negates the 3 phase frequency drive in my case.

I have another well with the pressure tank and standard setup. It doesn't negate the freq drive at all. The freq drive soft starts the pump and only runs it fast enough to maintain the 50 lb pressure. It uses 3 wires to basically turn the pump into variable speed. Even though I am in love with it the price is a factor. I will not likely put one on my second well because I can pull it by hand and change the pump in about an hour.

 

[Flogger]

I'm curious about how your well control works. I have several motors in my machine shop controlled by Variable Frequency Drives, AKA VFDs. Your situation must somehow sense demand which then tells the VFD to alter frequency so that the pump speed changes.
Most of the drives in my shop are controlled by the machine control but I do have a couple controlled by just me. The machine control is part of the expensive CNC control. The drives I control I understand and so control is no issue with me.
Having a well controlled by a VFD worries me because I may be locked into the device that senses demand and also locked into a particular VFD. VFDs are now so common that they have become really inexpensive. But the control interfaces vary quite a bit. If your VFD fails can you just buy another one with the same or better specs? And use it with the existing control?
The advantages of a 3 phase motor pumping the water, I think, can't be argued with from an electrical efficiency standpoint. But from a reliability standpoint I'm not so sure. Even though inverter power supplies, which is what VFDs are at heart, are very well understood, most of them are now made to satisfy a certain price and quality suffers because of this.
If the pump demand control interfaces with a generic VFD that would be great. A person could buy a generic VFD and just keep it for when the original one fails. Less that 100 bucks for a 2 HP VFD. But if the thing needed to be bought from a specific supplier then when the drive fails the cost will probably be a couple thousand.
Just my opinion of course after speaking to a couple electricians installing the new variable speed pump systems. So not a very big sample. Still, I'm curious.
Thanks,
Eric

The VFD is sold by Franklin specifically for well pumps. It has monitor points set up for that use. Someone smarter than I could probably make a generic freq drive work but that's above my pay grade!!