Generators, sizes and fuel options?

[ponytug]

Lot's of timely info here. Few questions though.
I'm needing a generator or two also. Based on online calculators I figure 10KW would be the max I need, but often (for months) less than half that.
We run a lot of computer equipment and I've a whole house surge protector. I've fried an expensive dishwasher circuit board before I got the wh surge protector.

so Q1 - Would the surge protector work with a generator?
I was actually thinking of buying EVENTUALLY two ~7KW inverter generators. These would be more movable and several times my power has been on but my MIL's was out, thus I could loan a generator easily.

Q2 - Does anyone here run generators with a tri-fuel kit?
My generator of choice (Honda) only offers gasoline, but I've got LPG and natural gas is coming to my road.

If you think that you mostly won't need the full 10kW, I would consider an inverter generator that can throttle back, for energy efficiency and sound reduction, but the largest I know of is an 8k from Northern Tool. I like your idea of perhaps two 7kW units.

To your questions;
1) Yes, a surge protector will do a little, but they are really designed to do just that, suppress high voltage surges. The inverter generators should produce very clean power. If you want to add something to clean up the power quality, I would consider an autotransformer and some EMI chokes, available in 120/240 versions to 20A each. Unfortunately, both poor generator design and marginal/failing generator electronics can lead to bad power quality. I tend to run my generators with a frequency meter and a volt meter display hooked up just to keep an eye on things.

2) Sorry, I can't help you on this one. I run diesel and gasoline generators. If I were doing it again, I would seriously consider one of those MEP-802A generators mentioned earlier. (When I was having issues with my cheap diesel, I nearly did.) Like @Larry Caldwell, I have an ancient 4kW Coleman gasoline generator that just runs, and runs, and a newer 6.5kW Yanmar knockoff cheap Chinese diesel, for which I now have lots of spare parts on hand, and now that I have a few things sorted out, it runs well.

All the best,

Peter

 

[IXLR8]

I have a 7Kw peak, 5.5kw running Honda inverter generator. We have a propane cooktop, electric oven, propane furnace or heat pump for heat and a 220v well pump. If we have a power outage in the winter, I set the T-stat to only run the propane furnace and I turn the breaker for the oven off and the generator handles everything else okay. Generator exhaust is typically pointed at my neighbors house and he says he never hears it. A quiet generator was a MUST have on my list. The generator is also push button start with fuel injection so wife has no issues getting it started if I am not available.

 

[Hoss710]

inverter technology is incredible. I use to have a few yanmar powered suitcase mep503 generators. they were very quiet and extremely fuel efficient. now in 2011 hurricane Irene hit us bad. 21 days with no power. I had a military 15kw gen that kept the whole house running including 2 ac units. it was a noisy cuss. but ran none stop and kept the house comfortably. and cooking was no issue. I since had bought a mep004a ( 20kw) as my main house generator. another loud 1 . but easy on fuel. I have a mep 806a that's a quiet unit and 60kw for my shop. it has a john deere 6 cylinder 6 liter turbocharged engine ( same as my jd710 c loader backhoe) it's to power my shop in a emergency.

 

[grsthegreat]

My well guy loves small generators. After long outages he makes a small fortune replacing failed well pumps.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I am going to think about DUROMAX 9,000-Watt/7,600-Watt Dual Fuel Remote Start Inverter Generator with Portable Digital Parallel 50-State XP9000iH - The Home Depot

to be able to use propane without freezing the regulator? Thoughts?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

If you think that you mostly won't need the full 10kW, I would consider an inverter generator that can throttle back, for energy efficiency and sound reduction, but the largest I know of is an 8k from Northern Tool. I like your idea of perhaps two 7kW units.

To your questions;
1) Yes, a surge protector will do a little, but they are really designed to do just that, suppress high voltage surges. The inverter generators should produce very clean power. If you want to add something to clean up the power quality, I would consider an autotransformer and some EMI chokes, available in 120/240 versions to 20A each. Unfortunately, both poor generator design and marginal/failing generator electronics can lead to bad power quality. I tend to run my generators with a frequency meter and a volt meter display hooked up just to keep an eye on things.

2) Sorry, I can't help you on this one. I run diesel and gasoline generators. If I were doing it again, I would seriously consider one of those MEP-802A generators mentioned earlier. (When I was having issues with my cheap diesel, I nearly did.) Like @Larry Caldwell, I have an ancient 4kW Coleman gasoline generator that just runs, and runs, and a newer 6.5kW Yanmar knockoff cheap Chinese diesel, for which I now have lots of spare parts on hand, and now that I have a few things sorted out, it runs well.

All the best,

Peter

It's possible to find used voltage stabilizers on the market. They were common before the days of computer electronics. A friend with a recording studio installed one in 1972, after the dinnertime voltage drop ruined a recording session when the top of the line TEAC recorder slowed down. Mine came from a photo lab that had the same problem with exposure times being thrown off by power company voltage variations. It's a surprisingly simple thing, just a big autotransformer and a couple big capacitors.

I put an oscilloscope on it, and it does a great job of filtering spikes. I didn't check it for EMI or RFI, but spikes happen all the time on a generator circuit, every time you flip a switch open. When wondering if a generator will start a heat pump, don't forget to wonder what happens when it shuts off.

I bought the line voltage stabilizer at a university surplus auction in the days when a UPS would cost north of four bills and money was worth a lot more. Jeez, I just realized I have had a home computer for 35 years...old tech.

 

[TheMan419]

While some on this forum might question the sanity of running a generator 24/7, living through a storm like this one might convince you.

I am in northern Indiana. We had the wind and the -35F windchill. Thankfully we dodged the snow. About 15 miles north of us got pounded. So we did not have the widespread power outage you had. If we did the gen would have been running 24/7 because the pump on the boiler was running darn near full time. Thankfully it would kick off for like 15 min out of an hour, but not enough to allow generator shut down and restart regularly.

When winter comes I load up on gasoline and stabil it. I keep enough on hand to run full bore for 30 hours or so. I can get out and get more gas during that time. Even if there is a blizzard. Although we are not prone to the type the got in Buffalo thank God.

 

[ponytug]

It's possible to find used voltage stabilizers on the market. They were common before the days of computer electronics. A friend with a recording studio installed one in 1972, after the dinnertime voltage drop ruined a recording session when the top of the line TEAC recorder slowed down. Mine came from a photo lab that had the same problem with exposure times being thrown off by power company voltage variations. It's a surprisingly simple thing, just a big autotransformer and a couple big capacitors.

I put an oscilloscope on it, and it does a great job of filtering spikes. I didn't check it for EMI or RFI, but spikes happen all the time on a generator circuit, every time you flip a switch open. When wondering if a generator will start a heat pump, don't forget to wonder what happens when it shuts off.

I bought the line voltage stabilizer at a university surplus auction in the days when a UPS would cost north of four bills and money was worth a lot more. Jeez, I just realized I have had a home computer for 35 years...old tech.

I used a ferroresonant voltage stabilizer for many years on a piece of touchy electronics, and it did a great job of removing pretty much all of the noise on the line. It was a beast. I remember it as weighing over 150lbs. It did a great job though. The local utility did something every morning at 6:00am that caused a one cycle or so voltage drop.

Welcome to the olde tyme computer owners club!

Great point about the shutoff effects of large motors which can be worse than the start up effects.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I am in northern Indiana. We had the wind and the -35F windchill. Thankfully we dodged the snow. About 15 miles north of us got pounded. So we did not have the widespread power outage you had. If we did the gen would have been running 24/7 because the pump on the boiler was running darn near full time. Thankfully it would kick off for like 15 min out of an hour, but not enough to allow generator shut down and restart regularly.

When winter comes I load up on gasoline and stabil it. I keep enough on hand to run full bore for 30 hours or so. I can get out and get more gas during that time. Even if there is a blizzard. Although we are not prone to the type the got in Buffalo thank God.

A generator certainly needs to be integrated with your home tech. Some people can't even flush a toilet if they don't have electricity. Over time, you can integrate your home infrastructure more flexibly. There was wood heat when we bought the place, so extra outlay was not required, but we spent quite a bit on upgraded insulation, windows, and doors. We've gone from running the wood stove wide open in cold weather, to a small fire well banked. We're still burning all the limbs that came down in last year's Snowmageddon.

Our well gets very low flow in the summer, so I installed a 2500 gallon cistern to be able to take a long shower without running the well dry. While I was at it I placed it high enough to gravity feed the house. Flush away, the toilet refills as if by magic!

The router needs a 12v. power supply, so I put a battery maintainer on a 12v. deep cycle, soldered some leads on a cheap BangGood step-up, step-down regulated power supply module, and my tablets/cell phones connect to the internet with no generator running. I can charge them off the same battery, which lasts for days. If the battery drops below 12v., the router still sees 12v. That's handy because there is no broadcast TV available here, and the strongest radio signal comes from a NOAA station on top of a local mountain.

An all-electric home is pretty common any more. I have neighbors who have one. If your house dies when the power goes out, or you live in the South where it is not inhabitable without air conditioning, a whole house genset with plenty of fuel is probably the wisest course of action. A more broad based physical plant can get by on less. When my mom was still living I set up a small genset just to run her oil furnace. It was electric start, but I had to supply her with 2 gallon gas cans because she was too frail to lift a 5 gallon can.

We've seen some integration efforts in this thread, like the battery backup for pellet stove. It's a wonder to me that nobody markets a Stirling powered electricity-free pellet stove. A quick check did find one pellet boiler that has an optional Stirling engine generator.

Many people have pointed out that you have to integrate the system with the user. I don't know if I will still be heating with wood 10 years from now, when I'm 85. Without my muscles, my wife would have trouble even now. Horsing a big chunk of wood into the firebox is a two hander for me, impossible for her, so I keep a good supply of splits on hand. The generator is electric start because there is no way she could handle pull start. Maybe this year I'll buy firewood, or maybe I'll split my own again, but I can see the day coming that I won't be able to handle it myself. I'm getting an aortic valve replacement this year, so maybe I'll feel perkier after that, but design choices I made when I was 65 may not be appropriate when I'm 85.

 

[i7win7]

We run a lot of computer equipment and I've a whole house surge protector. I've fried an expensive dishwasher circuit board before I got the wh surge protector.

Q2 - Does anyone here run generators with a tri-fuel kit?

OLD SCHOOL:
I have several 1500VA APC UPS units. All are 10 yrs old or more. All of them are modified sine wave, use sealed lead acid batteries. AC motors want pure AC sine waves. Batteries need replaced 3-4 years. UPS only runs about 15 minutes, just long enough to properly shut down computer eqipment. Don't know the switch over time spec (AC to DC) to be called a UPS

NEW TECH:
Solar generators: Cost more than UPS, a little longer switch over time (call it EPS emergency power supply), have bigger batteries, can be used indoors, can work like power on demand (fridge, lift chair, ect), some are designed to be mobile others are fixed installs. Really need gas gen (lower $$) over solar panels (high $$) to recharge batteries. Not a tax expert, heard you need at least 1 solar panel to claim tax deductions. Plan to replace all UPS units with solar gens over time.

DUEL FUEL:
I have chosen to use Ecoflow equipment. The DELTA 2 has a 1Kw battery, can output 1800w, testing fridge with a kill-a-watt meter - should run fridge an entire day. The dual fuel gas gen outputs 1600w LP/ 1800w gas. Will recharge the delta in an hour. Gas gen is AC/DC unit faster recharging on DC side. Gas gen can be pull started, push button electric start, phone app start, solar gen can start it.

Solar panels:
Don't be in a rush to buy them. Most power generation is from 10an to 2pm. Decide what areas of roof/property could support a solar array. Buy the highest wattage possible 400w+. Only reason for solar panels - can't make fuel, can make DC power. Still need a gas gen
to run any 240v wells, welders, electric driers and for cloudy/overcast days.