Cold starting a to 35 w/ Standard diesel

[Cougsfan]

My TO-35 23c Standard diesel starts extremely easy after the engine is warmed up, but fairly hard when engine is cold, and nearly impossible when it is below freezing out. I have used a space heater and blanket in cold weather in the past, but that is a pain and only semi effective. I have been thinking about installing a block heater to make cold starting easier. There are lots of options and I am unsure of which to use. There are magnetic heaters that just attach to the block, there are inexpensive heating pads that can be put on the oil pan, engine block and/or battery. There are radiator hose in-line heaters at a rough glance seem to be the best bet. There are freeze plug heaters that seem that they might be "iffy" to install. All of these come in various wattages. I am not sure if heating the engine iron, oil, the water, the battery, or the fuel is most effective. I would guess heating the water is most effective. Any experience based advice would be appreciated.

 

[Roadworthy]

I had one of those diesel Chevrolet cars everybody seems to think are so terrible. It had a block heater of some sort to warm the coolant. I never needed it until the glow plugs failed. With the warm water in the block I never missed the glow plugs - though I did replace them, anyhow. If you don't have glow plugs in your Massey, heat in the radiator hoses is a great way to go. They warm the engine where the combustion takes place.

 

[Agvg]

You need heat in the head so water is the best option, suppose you have working glow plugs/heater? Worn register chain alter timing and will make it harder to start.

 

[fishheadbob]

I had a TO 35 decades ago and tried everything to get it to start below freezing. Nothing worked. If you have the Continental engine, which is likely, you are screwed.

 

[oosik]

Good Morning Tom. We used 1500 watt lower radiator hose heaters exclusively when we lived in Alaska. They are designed to heat only the coolant water but will also pass on heat to all areas where the coolant goes. Except the radiator. The thermostat will effectively keep this heated water circulating only thru the engine block. It's a waste to heat the coolant in the radiator.

They instal easily - easy to check for potential leaks - do not need penetration of the engine block. Plus - at 1500 watts, they will do their job quickly and efficiently.

Your other option - keep that sweet 'ol Massey in your new heated garage and only use in the summer. You have your Branson for winter work.

 

[Jerry/MT]

My TO-35 23c Standard diesel starts extremely easy after the engine is warmed up, but fairly hard when engine is cold, and nearly impossible when it is below freezing out. I have used a space heater and blanket in cold weather in the past, but that is a pain and only semi effective. I have been thinking about installing a block heater to make cold starting easier. There are lots of options and I am unsure of which to use. There are magnetic heaters that just attach to the block, there are inexpensive heating pads that can be put on the oil pan, engine block and/or battery. There are radiator hose in-line heaters at a rough glance seem to be the best bet. There are freeze plug heaters that seem that they might be "iffy" to install. All of these come in various wattages. I am not sure if heating the engine iron, oil, the water, the battery, or the fuel is most effective. I would guess heating the water is most effective. Any experience based advice would be appreciated.

These engines a re notoriously hard starters in the cold. If you can put a block heater in a core plug hole, that's your best bet. It will directly heat the coolant in the water jacket. A 400 watt heater should do it for you. Not only will the engine fire off, with a warm water jacket the torque requirements on the starter are less and with reduced capacity of a cold battery, it easier on that energy source. My experience with the magnetic block heater is terrible. Don't waste your money. Lower hose heaters are probably the next best bet but the core plug heater is by far the best way to go.

 

[Cougsfan]

It is a Standard 23c diesel, not a Continental, it does have glow plugs and they have been replaced and are working. Putting it in my new garage is a bad idea as the garage doors ordered last May are still on backorder (that's another issue). I'd probably use the block heater even in the spring, summer and fall as the first start of the day is fairly difficult even in warm weather, and I don't want to use starter fluid. There are a few things (very few) that the 65 year old old Fergy is still better at than the newer bigger Branson.
Sounds like either a in-line hose heater as Rolf suggests or core plug heater as Jerry suggest is the way to go. How difficult is the core plug heater to install without it leaking?

 

[shaeff]

I was gonna say, the Continentals fire right off no matter what the temperature. I've had zero issues with mine.

Have you considered a second battery to aid in starting it? Are you 6v or 12v?

 

[Jerry/MT]

It is a Standard 23c diesel, not a Continental, it does have glow plugs and they have been replaced and are working. Putting it in my new garage is a bad idea as the garage doors ordered last May are still on backorder (that's another issue). I'd probably use the block heater even in the spring, summer and fall as the first start of the day is fairly difficult even in warm weather, and I don't want to use starter fluid. There are a few things (very few) that the 65 year old old Fergy is still better at than the newer bigger Branson.
Sounds like either a in-line hose heater as Rolf suggests or core plug heater as Jerry suggest is the way to go. How difficult is the core plug heater to install without it leaking?

I did my Ford 4610 in about 45 minutes and most of that was draining and fill the cooling system.
You can drill a small hole in the existing plug and then screw in a sheet metal screw and pry it out of the block. Or you can use a punch and hit it off center to make it rotate and then pull it out with a pair of pliers.
Then you make sure the hole is clean (no dirt or paint). The one I installed had a bolt that expanded the heater gasket when you tightened it. I used a little Permatex on the hole, tightened the bolt, installed the connector/plug assembly and checked for leaks after filling with coolant.
Phillips Temro makes a lot of these and you can look up their catalog to find the part number. I'm sure Agco carries these as well as NAPA also.

I had mine on a timer set to 2 hours before feeding time and the Ford started on the first rev. I also put block heaters on all my other tractors.

 

[m7040]

I have the MF 203 with Perkins engine. Using a heater in the lower radiator hose. I think it is 1 1/2inch diameter and installs by cutting out a piece of the hose and clamped in with two hose clamps. I usually plug it in an hour before having the start and it works every time

 

[arto98607]

I have a 1959 John Deere 440 ICD with a Detroit Diesel engine, no glow plugs and uses straight 40W oil.

It was very hard to start cold until I installed core plug block heater many years ago.

It made a huge improvement, was easy to install and no leaks.

 

[Cougsfan]

Just a follow up. I bought a 600 watt block heater on ebay, installed it, and it worked twice before it failed. The company replaced it with no hassle, and the new one works like a charm. I plug it in an hour before I want to start it and the engine fires up immediately. Thank you all for the advice.

 

[big bubba]

Had a T0 35 for 28 yrs. & yes, the Continential is a gasser as owner stated, & yes, the design of that 4cyl Standard diesel engine made it notoriously hard starting. also as stated, once warmed, a terrific engine. the original engine had an add on heating element option to the intake manifold to assist. but never seen one in operation. you might look online salvage for that component.
mine was a 2 battery 6volt system. you definitely want all 4 glo plugs operable...

i was the bad boy back then & used ether sparingly. nearly always worked. but agree, a block heater would be the way to go. have also used magnetic heating devices on oil pan with no real results.
what grade oil are you using? i'd consider 5/40 syn for an easier spin in the cold. great tractor though, good luck

 

[big bubba]

Just a follow up. I bought a 600 watt block heater on ebay, installed it, and it worked twice before it failed. The company replaced it with no hassle, and the new one works like a charm. I plug it in an hour before I want to start it and the engine fires up immediately. Thank you all for the advice.

interesting, could have used yrs ago. does it insert in a freeze plug or inline?

 

[Cougsfan]

It goes in the freeze plug hole. It was easy to install.

 

[Cougsfan]

Another follow up. The second block heater also failed. I suspect it is because the heating element actually touches against the engine casting when installed, but not sure why that would cause the problem. Going to try something different. Maybe one of those heaters that goes in lower radiator hose.

 

[oosik]

I always like the lower radiator hose heater. Get good hose clamps and you should not have any leaks for as long as the radiator hose is gonna last. The cool thing - you can alway tell they are working. They "perk" like a coffee pot. And if they don't perk - grab the radiator hose. It should be pretty warm.

 

[Anakist]

I am having the same problem. Starts hard when "cold". I live in Tropical Australia though so my cold is different from your cold.

The guy I bought it off just used starting fluid to get it to start and said that's what the people he bought it from showed him to do so I guess it's been ether trained by now! I am reading online that "everyone knows the mods by now" to get it the 23C to start, but can't find what the list of things is. I think I read something about drilling out the passage from the precombustion chamber, but it was more about getting the compression ratio back by skimming the head once you've done that.

Does anyone have the list of what to do to the engine?

Thanks.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Another follow up. The second block heater also failed. I suspect it is because the heating element actually touches against the engine casting when installed, but not sure why that would cause the problem. Going to try something different. Maybe one of those heaters that goes in lower radiator hose.

When the block heater touches the interior metal of the water jacket, there is no coolant at the contact point and the element overheats and burns out. It can also overheat if you leave it plugged in with the engine running. The cross flow on the element separates on the downstream side of the element and causes an overheat condition which causes a burn out. Can you get a shorter element or reorient the element so it doesn't touch anything?

 

[DMW]

If you have electricity nearby, try using a hot air gun on the air intake (may have to remove air filter) while cranking.