Flow Control

[binaryviking]

Hello All

The left/right swing on my new backhoe attachment is way to fast, everything else works fine.
I was considering getting this adjustable flow control valve and putting it in right where the hydraulic hose hooks up to the controls for my swing , and then attaching the hydraulic host to it.
I'm thinking this will let me control the speed of my swing speed. I don't know all that much about hydraulics so I thought Id make a post to see if there might be anything I'm missing here.
Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[ptsg]

Yes, that will do exactly what you need.

You just need to check the specs on the flow control valve you choose. Some will adjust the flow in both directions, meaning you only need one, while others will adjust only on one direction and provide full flow on the opposite direction, meaning you need two valves but allows for flow settings this way.

Ideally, you want two flow control valves regardless. This will provide full flow control on the return side of both hoses and the momentum of the boom won't "run away" compared to have a single flow control valve.

 

[binaryviking]

Yes, that will do exactly what you need.

You just need to check the specs on the flow control valve you choose. Some will adjust the flow in both directions, meaning you only need one, while others will adjust only on one direction and provide full flow on the opposite direction, meaning you need two valves but allows for flow settings this way.

Ideally, you want two flow control valves regardless. This will provide full flow control on the return side of both hoses and the momentum of the boom won't "run away" compared to have a single flow control valve.

Thanks, that's some great information. So you are saying I should have 2 control valves placed like the picture below?
Also , here are the specs on the valve, I believe my backhoe is max 2000 psi and 5-6 GPM

• Needle Valve used to provide flow control and shut-off in either direction.
• Max Flow Rating: 22.5 GPM (85 L/Min)
• Max Pressure Rating: 5000 PSI

 

[ptsg]

Yes, one in each hose. That's a good spot, but it may get a bit tight really fast. You may have to put those on the T fitting near the cylinders instead, at the cost of being a bit harder to adjust.

22.5 GPM is an huge valve though. You can get something a lot smaller and cheaper.

Something like this: 3/8 NPT 8 GPM Prince WFC-600 In-Line Flow Control | Wolverine by Prince Mfg | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

You'll have to figure out what size and type of fittings you have there. To me, looks like 3/8" BSPP but I won't confirm this 100%.

 

[binaryviking]

Yes, one in each hose. That's a good spot, but it may get a bit tight really fast. You may have to put those on the T fitting near the cylinders instead, at the cost of being a bit harder to adjust.

22.5 GPM is an huge valve though. You can get something a lot smaller and cheaper.

Something like this: 3/8 NPT 8 GPM Prince WFC-600 In-Line Flow Control | Wolverine by Prince Mfg | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

You'll have to figure out what size and type of fittings you have there. To me, looks like 3/8" BSPP but I won't confirm this 100%.

So from what I was told by the guys at the tractor shop when I brought my hydraulic hose to them is the the hose fittings were "5-JIC" and after some more research and talking with Granger Supply they told me I needed a control valve with 1/2" NPT ports. I was going to get it from them but there valves were like $200-$300, whew!

 

[ptsg]

So from what I was told by the guys at the tractor shop when I brought my hydraulic hose to them is the the hose fittings were "5-JIC" and after some more research and talking with Granger Supply they told me I needed a control valve with 1/2" NPT ports. I was going to get it from them but there valves were like $200-$300, whew!

1/2" is way too big for a 6 GPM flow. Technically you can even go to the smaller one at 1/4", it will only help reduce the speed.

Definitely try to confirm what kind and size of fittings you have, so you can get the right stuff.

What make and model of tractor are we talking about? EDIT: Just saw your other thread. It's the BH8600 backhoe with it's own pump and tank, right?

 

[binaryviking]

So I have a 68 Massey Ferguson 150 that has a 3cylnder diesel . and I bought a BH8600 backhoe attachment for it. It came with a PTO pump. I let the the company I bought it from know about the swing problem and they said the only solution was for them to send me a smaller PTO pump which I really don't want to do because all of the other controls work fine. But the Swing is dangerously fast, even when I keep my Idle below 800 rpm.
I can make the swing slow if I'm very very careful with how much pressure I put on it but I don't want to have to do that each time.

 

[ptsg]

It makes totally sense. I built my own excavator and the swing is indeed a tricky geometry to get right and often results in being too fast.

Checking the specs, you can indeed go with the smaller 1/4" flow control valves. Should make it easier to fit where it needs to go. 1/4 NPT 5 GPM Prince WFC-400 In-Line Flow Control | Wolverine by Prince Mfg | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[DJ54]

Learning to feather the controls, and doing multiple functions at the same time will slow it down. It's a learning curve, and seat time is the only way to learn.

 

[binaryviking]

It makes totally sense. I built my own excavator and the swing is indeed a tricky geometry to get right and often results in being too fast.

Checking the specs, you can indeed go with the smaller 1/4" flow control valves. Should make it easier to fit where it needs to go. 1/4 NPT 5 GPM Prince WFC-400 In-Line Flow Control | Wolverine by Prince Mfg | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[binaryviking]

Ok , So I would have to get adapters for this 1/4'' flow valve to fit my "5-JIC" fittings, which are 1/2", correct?

 

[scootr]

I've been trying to remedy the same challenge recently myself. Bought a Chinese claw that is way to fast unless the machine is idling. Long story short > JIC5 too small JIC6 too big = I have a nice valve with 1/4" NPT female inlets. I'm going to cut a hose and take it to the hose shop. Then ask them to put a 1/4 NPT male on both ends of the cut where I will install the valve.

 

[ptsg]

Ok , So I would have to get adapters for this 1/4'' flow valve to fit my "5-JIC" fittings, which are 1/2", correct?

Yes, you'll need adapters. About the size, I can't really help you but if the hydraulic shop saw the fittings, they'll know better than me.

 

[binaryviking]

Ok thanks for all of the help , I really appreciate it, Helped out tons.

 

[oldnslo]

Ok , So I would have to get adapters for this 1/4'' flow valve to fit my "5-JIC" fittings, which are 1/2", correct?

#5 SAE is an odd ball size rarely used but yes that would be 1/2- 20 UNF thread. You almost need to measure the thread diameter and number threads per inch or millimeter if metric to determine style of fitting. You also need to measure angle of seat if there a is a tapered seat. Standard JIC is 37 degrees but there is also a metric 30 degree that looks very similar but does not interchange.

 

[ericm979]

I put the 5gpm valves linked above on various circuits on my Branson backhoe. The boom was way too fast and jerky. The bucket curl speeds up as it reaches its stop on extension, slams into the stop and ejects much of the material in the bucket. I can get it right about half the time.

I put the valves on the cylinder ends of the hoses so I could get to them to adjust them. There's two on the boom cylinder and I can reach them from the operators seat.

I'm not an experienced backhoe operator but I have about 20 hours on this one. As I got better I could operate multiple controls at once but that wasn't enough to make the boom or the bucket curl behave predictably. Selectively slowing the hydraulics helps. I think the valves on this backhoe are just cheap.

These restrictor valves are one way. I set them up to restrict flow out of the cylinder. JIC5 is usually on a 5/16 hose. It's its own standard, not SAE or NPT. You'll need NPT to JIC adapters for the valves, one male and one female JIC with male NPT on each.

 

[binaryviking]

I put the 5gpm valves linked above on various circuits on my Branson backhoe. The boom was way too fast and jerky. The bucket curl speeds up as it reaches its stop on extension, slams into the stop and ejects much of the material in the bucket. I can get it right about half the time.

I put the valves on the cylinder ends of the hoses so I could get to them to adjust them. There's two on the boom cylinder and I can reach them from the operators seat.

I'm not an experienced backhoe operator but I have about 20 hours on this one. As I got better I could operate multiple controls at once but that wasn't enough to make the boom or the bucket curl behave predictably. Selectively slowing the hydraulics helps. I think the valves on this backhoe are just cheap.

These restrictor valves are one way. I set them up to restrict flow out of the cylinder. JIC5 is usually on a 5/16 hose. It's its own standard, not SAE or NPT. You'll need NPT to JIC adapters for the valves, one male and one female JIC with male NPT on each.

Thanks for the information. So these are the adapters I ordered for the control valve below.

 

[ptsg]

Thanks for the information. So these are the adapters I ordered for the control valve below.

Please cancel that order ASAP. Those fittings are not meant for hydraulic pressures at all!! Get proper hydraulic fittings that can handle thousands of PSI.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

The problem many small tractors have with their controls, and the over sensitivity, is because most valve manufacturers desing their tractor valves for 10 to 13-gpm flows, and larger. I have only seen one loader valve rated for 5-gpm.

Most smaller tractors have pumps that are only capable of five or six-gpm. This is aggravated by the fact that to keep the mechanical loads down on the lighter weight 3-pt, and loader, they have small cylinders. Which while they don’t generate as much force, move much further with the same amount of fluid volume. You have trouble getting low flow rates through a valve which is twice as large as it needs to be, filling the smaller diameter cylinders more quickly, in response to that volume of oil.

I’m toying with installing larger diameter cylinders, with a lower pressure bypass valve. This would limit the force on the equipment to around what the factory force is, while making the response less quick.

That said with a long learning curve, I am learning to control the motions better using the joystick on the loader. And can now make slower more precise movements.. That said it would have been easier if things moved slower for the same volume of fluid. And doubling the size of the cylinders makes them 4 times slower, with a 4 fold increase in force. Cut the pressure to one 1/4th of the factory, and you cut the force, back to factory, while still being slower reacting.

 

[binaryviking]

Please cancel that order ASAP. Those fittings are not meant for hydraulic pressures at all!! Get proper hydraulic fittings that can handle thousands of PSI.

Ok they have been canceled. I'm going to visit our local tractor shop and see that they have.