Kubota 3910 ran out of water and will not run

[JWR]

Wouldn’t turn over if it was.

Most tractors I know about have electrical interlocks that will not allow starting the engine if the PTO is engaged. The OP said it was turning over so that would seem to rule out the PTO being engaged (which may be why Dusty this.) I think the entire discussion is pointless until the guy finds out if he has compression or not -- needs to check whether pressure will hold in the cooling system.

 

[5030]

It's my contention that he needs to take it to a Kubota dealer and have it professionally diagnosed and repaired. The owner didn't have enough sense not to run it out of coolant, does anyone actually think he could do a compression test or anything else mechanical for that matter??? I don't.

 

[JWR]

It's my contention that he needs to take it to a Kubota dealer and have it professionally diagnosed and repaired. The owner didn't have enough sense not to run it out of coolant, does anyone actually think he could do a compression test or anything else mechanical for that matter??? I don't.

Well I agree the machine almost certainly has to go to a competent repair shop, benefit of doubt going to most dealers. Since the neighbor was called in for opinion, it would seem beneficial to see if the radiator held pressure before prostrating oneself totally to the shop not knowing even that much about the condition of the patient. That requires nowhere near as much mechanical skill/knowledge as doing a compression test.

 

[etpm]

Many years ago I was driving a Ford Econoline van that had the engine in between the front seats. I had owned more than one of these vans and loved them. Anyway, I was driving out of Seattle on Hwy. 520. There is one exit after leaving I-5 before the bridge going over Lake Washington. Just as I left I-5 and drove onto 520 I smelled a hot engine. I looked at the temp gauge and it read fine. Nevertheless I took the one exit before the bridge and pulled into a gas station right at the exit. I shut off the engine and it stopped instantly. Lifting the hood, which is inside the van, let a bunch of steam into the van. I had it towed home and discovered that the lower radiator hose had blown off. I never found out how this happened. I also don't know how long I had been driving with no water. The only clue was the "hot" smell. And in that van I was sitting right next to the engine. I thought that the engine was toast but decided to try starting it just for kicks. It almost started. It kinda coughed a bit and tried to fire. About a week after my poor van decided that it was gonna need a new engine I was telling the guy behind the parts counter at a local NAPA store about what happened to my van. I was in the store buying parts for another car and was just passing time telling the guy about my van. He told me that maybe the engine was not history, that maybe it had stuck valves because it was running so hot that the oil in the valve guides had carbonized and this was causing the valves to stick. He talked me into buying a can of some sort of moose pee called "Valve Tune". To use it you pour 1/2 half of the can into the motor oil. Then, as you attempt to start the engine you slowly pour the rest of the can into the carb throat. I did this. The engine at first just coughed as before but then it started to smooth out some. It would not run without the starter cranking it so I let the starter cool off and then tried again. The second effort at starting worked. The engine kept running, albeit poorly. But I kept pouring the Valve Tune down the carb throat and the engine started running better. With lots of pumping of the gas pedal I kept the engine running and eventually it started running normally. I drove that van for about 4 more years and then sold it. It still was running well when I sold it. Maybe the tractor in question here is also suffering from sticky valves. I have always been dubious of "Tune Up In A Can" products but I did luck out just the one time. If I had not pulled off of the freeway and shut off the engine when I did I am sure the engine would have been overheated to such an extent that it would have required a rebuild. I am pretty sure that the head had gotten so hot that the oil in the valve guides did start to carbonize and the valves were sticking. Diesel engines are different from gasoline engines and I don't know enough about them if they could suffer from sticky valves after overheating. If it was my engine I might be tempted to risk 10 bucks or whatever it costs now on a can of Valve Tune. If it is still available. Though it can't be poured down a carb throat and I wouldn't risk pouring it into a diesel intake manifold.
Eric

 

[tallyho8]

He ordered a pressure test kit from Amazon before he wants to do anything else on it. Should get it in a couple of days.

 

[big bubba]

The owner didn't have enough sense not to run it out of coolant, does anyone actually think he could do a compression test or anything else mechanical for that matter??? I don't. 5030

give the poor guy a break. no sense adding insult to injury. best of luck to the owner, things happen

 

[JWR]

ETPM in post #24 --- Great story. Worth more than the last 25 posts I have read! "Moose pee" ingredients essentially caused me to spew a mouthful of coffee all over the room.

VERY interesting comparison between your van and this incident with the Kubota.

A couple of observations:
Your van was probably an in-line-six gasoline type. This Kubota L3901 is a 3 cyl diesel. So if roughly parallel things happened, you had to conk out the majority of 6 cylinders to stall it while all this guy had to lose was 1 or at most 2 cylinders of his Kubota before it stalled out. I do not see why pouring some oily stuff (be it Moose pee based or not) in the intake of a diesel would do any more or less harm than it did in your gas job unless a sensitive turbocharger is in the picture. If I really thought that was the problem though, I would take off the rocker cover and find a way to rotate the engine while directly lubing the valve stems instead. Probably in the case of this OP's friend/neighbor, the important thing is that things be done in a sensible progression -- check the radiator pressure retention first, then track down the cause if it is dropping, etc. A danger would be if the mechanics working on it fail to consider stuck valves they might do some very unnecessary and expensive things. I can think of several dealers and repair shops who would not always do that in the best interest of the customer. Like for example replacing the head would fix it and cost 25 times as much.

p.s.: if valves are stuck due to overheating of lubricant then the valve seals are almost certain to be shot as well. I would have guessed your van used some oil due to leakage around the valve stems after that fix. Do you remember if that happened?

 

[tacticalturnip]

Why ? No guarantee or extended maintenance agreement would (nor should) cover knocking a radiator hose off and running the thing until it dies.

Isn't KTAC insurance?

 

[JWR]

Isn't KTAC insurance?

Post #19 says it is insurance. Be it insurance or a guarantee I don't think either one would (or should) cover an owner knocking the radiator hose off and running the thing until it quits.

 

[5030]

...or blowing it off because the radiator was loaded with chaff from brush hogging and was unable to cool the engine and something had to give... I seriously doubt the 'neighbor' has the sense to actually do a compression check anyway and I don't believe the 'Amazon' leak down / compression tester has the correct adapter anyway. Again, I'd take it to a competent dealer (who knows what they are doing) and let them ascertain the damage...

My 2 cents and I'll be following along but no more comments from the peanut gallery.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

This is for everyone. Check your hoses, all hoses, for tightness.

I've worked on a lot of Kubota engines that were not near that hot, cracked head every time. I have put on several. From owners that the temp showed hot, shut it down, still ran good, but would not start up again. I have also seen a one year old tractor, ran out of fuel, put in fuel, tried starting fluid to get it to pick up fuel, engine was no good after that. It would not start on a hot summer day unless one guy was on tractor cranking and another was spraying constantly with starting fluid. This was at the dealership and I worked there.

 

[ruffdog]

He ordered a pressure test kit from Amazon before he wants to do anything else on it. Should get it in a couple of days.

Did he order a compression tester or a coolant system pressure tester? After getting real hot, if there is a cracked head/cylinder and water gets in a cylinder, don't crank it over with the injectors in. It might hydro lock and do more damage like bent rods.

 

[repete]

Many years ago my father in law was driving the E350 i yd dump with a 16' flatbed and tractor loaded sbound on I-5 in Washington. He got near his exit and then it started running rough and pulled over. The engine had overheated and seized.
When I pulled the engine I took the thermostat housing off as part of the "why did it happen" autopsy (I do a lot of these ). I discovered the thermostat works against a pin that pushes against a strap sitting, for lack of a better term I will use arm, over the top of the thermostat. This pin had pushed through the arm and the thermostat had slammed totally shut instantly.
The thermostat had worked perfectly up till this point.
Ya, if he had been watching the gauge he may have caught it but in this case he was watching his driving. Things happen...

 

[JWR]

... and I believe the 'Amazon' leak down / compression tester has the correct adapter. The adapters fit just about everything including my MF 2660, my BX2200, my kids BX, etc. No reason in the world to believe it lacks an adapter to fit the L3901 radiator.

 

[rScotty]

... and I believe the 'Amazon' leak down / compression tester has the correct adapter. The adapters fit just about everything including my MF 2660, my BX2200, my kids BX, etc. No reason in the world to believe it lacks an adapter to fit the L3901 radiator.

Checking the leak down seems a good first step. Lets see what that says before going farther.

I wish I could say that I check all the fluids and do a walk around inspection before starting the tractor or the pickup..... but honestly I doubt I do that once a month.
When it's running I do check the gauges sometimes. It would still be all to easy to miss a problem.

Water temperature means nothing if there isn't any.
Sounds like bad luck,
rScotty

 

[5030]

Kind of reminds me of an interesting and costly story about the Series 60 DDEC engines some years bac. We had them lined up in the shop, on stands, all DOA from the extended life coolant mixing with the oil and turning into goo. None of the owners had a clue what was happening (until they locked up) because the coolant temperature was always within range so even the electronic engine shutdown never operated

The engines kept on running until they locked up. Temperature sensors cannot sense anything when there is no coolant present.

Weren't even able to even short block them as the goo was everywhere inside. Detroit Diesel too a heck of a bath on that deal.

Sitting on engine stands with cardboard under them, catching the goo that was dripping out of them. Extended life coolant and engine oil makes a nasty combo.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I am surprise it even turns ... good engine

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Well, my L5030 that dad uses had a leaking water pump last year. Dad thought radiator was leaking so put stop leak in it. Course he never told me until after the damage was done. it eventually caused a cracked head. Cost $6K to have kubota dealer fix it, but that included new radiator, new hoses, new water pump, new head and labor.

 

[etpm]

Well, my L5030 that dad uses had a leaking water pump last year. Dad thought radiator was leaking so put stop leak in it. Course he never told me until after the damage was done. it eventually caused a cracked head. Cost $6K to have kubota dealer fix it, but that included new radiator, new hoses, new water pump, new head and labor.

Why did the stop leak cause a cracked head? Or did it not stop any leaks and the tractor overheated? I'm curious.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Why did the stop leak cause a cracked head? Or did it not stop any leaks and the tractor overheated? I'm curious.
Thanks,
Eric

The water pump had the leak, not the radiator. So tractor kept overheating. I also think dad (98 yo last year) was putting straight water in the radiator. By the time I found out and checked it out, head was cracked.