Flail mower first try = terrible cut… SOLVED

[leonz]

A really interesting and helpful thread, I've learned a lot from this


I've a Kioti CS2610 and use a 4' del morino flail with Y cutters. I've had both for 9 years. Results initially on long or short stuff was great but results deteriorated rapidly as the blades deteriorated - not surprisingly. Our soil is very stony!
My Y blades now are worn smooth and round on the leading edges. The back (trailing) edges are ok. My question is, can I just swap them all around to reverse them so that the leading edge is now "ok" or should I replace all with new?
Thanks

Bon Jour,

Monsieur Adlox, I wish to welcome you as the newest resident member of the Flail Mower Nations from Rancon, France.

As you have the side slicer knives on your beautiful Del Morino flail Mower you can simply reverse them and obtain
another 9 years of mowing with them.

 

[Ricn]

Having made no changes to my Woodmaxx mower, it is far from a perfect cut but, so much easier to mow large areas than when using my brush hog. On longer stuff, those having stiff stems, I get some that don't get cut off but most do. Am I happy, yes 100%. The mower is set using the top link cylinder to lift the skids about one inch high in front, the mower runs on the roller only and being set to it's lowest position. The cutters are the Y type, more for grass than heavy stuff.
My particular mower would never produce a finish look, much like a rider mower can, but I knew that from talking to the seller beforehand who was very upfront about flail mower results and something I knew already. My Kubota excavator has a flail as well and gives the same looking results unless mowing over twice.
My run speed is mostly medium on the HST but switch to low on the heavy and thick stuff. Tac speed is 2200 for the 540 pto and yes, it sounds like a vacumn!

 

[Ricn]

Lots of good info here. I have a medium duty 6ft bush hog on my 47hp Branson. It cut’s well but needs constant attention else things get dramatic with rocks or scuffing the ground. Luckily at my cabin it doesn’t matter much but I am tired of scrubbing up the ground. I’m thinking of maybe trading it for a flail mower. I’ve run one before when volunteering at a town owned orchard years ago. I know they are expensive, but can anyone recommend a good one at a reasonable price ($3k’ish). I know there are cheaper Chinese ones but don’t know if worth the risk. Looking for a 6ft cut.

Very happy with my Woodmaxx. Some parts are made in China but see no issue with that. My mower has been bulletproof and is well built. I have the side shift model 60 inch, also top and tilt on my tractor with a harbor Fright quick hitch..

 

[Fixastuff]

Having made no changes to my Woodmaxx mower, it is far from a perfect cut but, so much easier to mow large areas than when using my brush hog. On longer stuff, those having stiff stems, I get some that don't get cut off but most do. Am I happy, yes 100%. The mower is set using the top link cylinder to lift the skids about one inch high in front, the mower runs on the roller only and being set to it's lowest position. The cutters are the Y type, more for grass than heavy stuff.
My particular mower would never produce a finish look, much like a rider mower can, but I knew that from talking to the seller beforehand who was very upfront about flail mower results and something I knew already. My Kubota excavator has a flail as well and gives the same looking results unless mowing over twice.
My run speed is mostly medium on the HST but switch to low on the heavy and thick stuff. Tac speed is 2200 for the 540 pto and yes, it sounds like a vacumn!

What model excavator and cutter? I'm about to buy one for tb260.

 

[blenderbender]

The skids should not touch the ground, their only job is to protect the flail mower rotor, knife hangers and knives/hammers.

This is the first time I've heard that the skids should not touch the ground, though I often raise my flail mower in order to get a higher cut. My problem with that is the mower drifts down in pretty short order. I have the draft control set to not allow that but the hydraulics pay it no mind. I've wondered if adding caster gauge wheels would be an appropriate fix . Seems they would have less impact causing long stuff to being laid over and miss getting cut. Am I missing something there as I've yet to see or hear of gauge wheels on a flail mower. I've been trying to grow native wildflowers on a 5 acre field rather unsuccessfully for a couple years now. Ragweed, Queen Ann's Lace, and other early grasses out compete the copious amounts of seed I've put down. I was advised by the seed provider to mow 6-8"'s until the wildflowers get more established. But it's been a PITA cause I can't keep it up (that's what she said ).

 

[Ricn]

What model excavator and cutter? I'm about to buy one for tb260.

We have 2 Kubota U-40s, both run flails great! Highly recommend this size unit. Also have a u-35 with flail, this unit is the smallest Kubota that will operate a flail reasonably well due to it's pump capacity being much less than a 40. If using for yourself, around the farm, the U-35 is much less money and will do the job but know that the hydraulics are in play for both swing and flail which can slow the flail drum speed, still it works! My Son operated this unit for 2500 hrs doing jobs all over the place but now has a U-40 plus a second unit his Brother runs. They both dig and mow, whatever is needed. The little


u35 is here for me to use and also for a backup if needed. Both are great machines and so reliable too! We are using the US Mower brand or flails.

 

[tonynz]

I would take those front flaps off, ok they are a safety feature but if you are sitting on the tractor, it's not likely to harm you. Check the flails as they may have been adjusted wrong and have hit the striker bar.

 

[Fixastuff]

We have 2 Kubota U-40s, both run flails great! Highly recommend this size unit. Also have a u-35 with flail, this unit is the smallest Kubota that will operate a flail reasonably well due to it's pump capacity being much less than a 40. If using for yourself, around the farm, the U-35 is much less money and will do the job but know that the hydraulics are in play for both swing and flail which can slow the flail drum speed, still it works! My Son operated this unit for 2500 hrs doing jobs all over the place but now has a U-40 plus a second unit his Brother runs. They both dig and mow, whatever is needed. The little


u35 is here for me to use and also for a backup if needed. Both are great machines and so reliable too! We are using the US Mower brand or flails.

Nice I already have a Takeuchi tb260 cab, has aux 1 flow of 27gal/min so it should spin a flail pretty nicely.

 

[leonz]

This is the first time I've heard that the skids should not touch the ground, though I often raise my flail mower in order to get a higher cut. My problem with that is the mower drifts down in pretty short order. I have the draft control set to not allow that but the hydraulics pay it no mind. I've wondered if adding caster gauge wheels would be an appropriate fix . Seems they would have less impact causing long stuff to being laid over and miss getting cut. Am I missing something there as I've yet to see or hear of gauge wheels on a flail mower. I've been trying to grow native wildflowers on a 5 acre field rather unsuccessfully for a couple years now. Ragweed, Queen Ann's Lace, and other early grasses out compete the copious amounts of seed I've put down. I was advised by the seed provider to mow 6-8"'s until the wildflowers get more established. But it's been a PITA cause I can't keep it up (that's what she said ).

It will be less expensive to fix the draft control on your mule rather than install gauge wheels
on your flail mower as you need four of them and adapting them to mow 6 inches high will take
a lot of work.

I have no idea how much replacement bush hog caster wheel weldments would cost as you need
more steel to mount them on all four corners of the flail mower.

 

[TractorTYMe]

Hi! S584, I also just got a Betstco flail mower, a ditch bank mower. I got a huge job of 19 acres and it didn't do great leaving lots of yarrow and thistles that pop up like an IRS agent on payday. My old 68'' pallettforks.com offset mower was a beast with it's 1.5# hammers. These are barely 14oz.......and made from butter....not really liking it to be honest. The ditch bank feature is about the only good feature about it.

 

[Fixastuff]

We are using the US Mower brand or flails.

Wow. Their smallest excavator flail is 15k after mount and shipping. I'm sure they're good but dang.

 

[leonz]

If your shopping you should also look at Valley Tool/Vrisimo for a flail mower attachment.

 

[JKELLEY26]

I have the smallest Betsco flail mower and it leaves stragglers but I'm mowing a field in order to keep thistles down not for looks. Since Betsco is at the low end of the market I suspect they space the flails too far apart to not leave stragglers.

 

[BEAGLES]

I use a 84” rear finish mower and I’ve got a 72” Orsi flail mower. I use the flail mower to cut the edges of my roads and fields.

The correct adjustment of the flail mower, RPM, knives, rotating / driving direction, driving speed etc. is key. It’s like a box blade. If not adjusted correctly it’s not working good.

For the flail mower you can choose between knives and hammers. I’ve got hammers on mine, as I also let 4-5 inch trees, brushes, bushes etc through it. I mow stuff of that’s 2 feet tall down to 3-4 inches like nothing and I don’t get any standing stalks or patches either. But she needs to go full bore 540 PTO RPM and she is liking her fuel. Mowing in reverse is an absolute no go on mine. The tilt front rear (using the adjustable top link) doesn’t matter much, but it does affect the cutting hight. The only way I am having problems like you is when I don’t have 540 RPM on the PTO and or drive too fast.

 

[BEAGLES]

I have the woodmax 78 with the hydraulic offset and hammer type cutters on a Massey 2606h. I get a great cut on tall grasses as long as I’m at 540 pto. and going slow. If doing some small woody stuff I will get a stragler. If I’m in much woody stuff I’ll put on the brushhog

 

[k2man]

I have a well used BETSTCO Farmer Helper Machinery Company EFGC195 flail mower. The brackets that held the bearings have been bent and re-straightened a few times, and worn off on the bottom from dragging over rocks. Also the front sheet metal flapper guards that reduce the crap flying out the front are long gone. I’ve broken and replaced a few of the 23 oz cast iron hammers breaking up rocks. The cutting edge has curled up on some of the hammers. But with all these problems, the thing still cuts very well, even massive clumps of Guinea grass, and it will grind up 1” tree sprouts with no problems.

I still can cut the lawn grass and it looks pretty good, but it’s very easy to scalp with just the well worn skids to prevent that. Occasionally a small rock will come flying out the front, but always on the ground. I’ve never had it throw anything up in the air that I’ve noticed.

Without the roller on the back, it does a much better job cutting in reverse on big tall stuff- like Guinea grass clumps- because the grass isn’t pushed down and away from the mower.

But once I get a roof back over my outdoor shop area I plan to reinstall the roller, do some welding, and install some chains on the front.

 

[blenderbender]

It will be less expensive to fix the draft control on your mule rather than install gauge wheels
on your flail mower as you need four of them and adapting them to mow 6 inches high will take
a lot of work.

I have no idea how much replacement bush hog caster wheel weldments would cost as you need
more steel to mount them on all four corners of the flail mower.

Thanks.... for some reason I hadn't considered 4 gauge wheels. Guess I'll search and/or try to figure out why my draft control drifts.

 

[Ricn]

Wow. Their smallest excavator flail is 15k after mount and shipping. I'm sure they're good but dang.

Yes, they are industrial grade units that last a long time.
If not working one commercially like ours are, I doubt it would ever need upgrading from using around the farm.
When first getting my Woodmaxx tractor flail, I had lots learn from not ever dragging one around on the 3-point, but Leonz here on TBN was very helpful.

 

[Dan Lefever]

Mott flails (and I assume Alamo, who now owns the design. may have the option ) had a reverse cut option for fine lawn mowing. Looking at mower from the right size the standard rotation was clockwise basically knives coming down on top of the grass in the direction of travel cutting it off and discharging it out to the rear. The reverse rotation was counterclockwise knives moving down into the backside of the uncut "grass" and continuing forward into the cut and direction of travel. This required a front guard to keep cut grass and debris from being thrown up all over the tractor and operator and was not appropriate for anything other than fine lawns. This rotation option was accomplished by flipping the gearbox and output shaft over 180° and installing the cutter shaft end for end (180° also) and this enabled driving the cutter shaft in the opposite rotation. Super versatile engineering on Motts part.
The number and type of blades is going to make a difference on how much rougher stuff passes through. Mott had the option for four types of blades. There were three quarter inch wide by 5 inch long, bent 45° at the sharpened end edge, lightweight knives. Then there were 1 1/4" wide by 5" long heavyweight knives. Third there was the option for 3-in long knives by 1 1/4" wide mounted on rings so they could deflect sideways when rough cutting of woody brush or hitting rocks and not get bent. These were on all models with the 2-in solid cutter shafts. . On their extra heavy duty models with 6-in diameter pipe shafts there was also the 4th option of rough cut knives for heavy brush mowing and or corn stalk chopping, with a special cutter shaft with fewer knives. Rough cutting knives were about 2 in wide and hung on a ring Clevis with a pin and cotter, and required ordering mower with a rough cut shaft that had less different spaced lugs; All the knives had the capability of being turned around so you could wear both both cutting edges. And they could be sharpened in place as well with a special handheld sharpener grinder that could grind most of the blades, on the mower, except the very outer edge ones. If your flail mower equates to the standard rotation, cutting towards the rear, I would suggest the best way to get a better mow job is, sharp blades and reduced travel speed or potentially speed up the cutter shaft so more knives pass over the same ground area in a given amount of time. May be possible to use 1000 rpm PTO option and throttle back tractor if it is big enuf to have reserve power (40 hp?)
I have little to no experience with other brands of flails other than customers remarking how durable Motts were after having used other brands before to buy a Mott. But my 72" Mott did very well with grinding up anything I could push over in the way of bushes or rough weeds and this was with a 1952 Ferguson TO30 (30 horsepower) which did not have live PTO. Biggest problem was not being able to pause travel and allowing the mower to keep running while, I cleaned out fine but 12" tall Kentucky bluegrass, as it would end up wrapping the grass until it stalled the tractor. At that point it was hell to get the PTO shift lever to disengage so I could start the tractor, lift the mower, back up, then engage the PTO and attempt to get it cleaned out while not engaged in forward travel. Live PTO resolved this problem tremendously; plus also allowed for backing over bushes; or advancing very slowly a few inches at a time, while the mower ground up rough brush, or heavy weeds. It only did a fair job on corn stalks as it would basically have them pushed over to the ground before they got chopped up and unless the blades were set really low at 1" they wouldn't actually pick up and grind the stalks. Hope this diatribe was some what helpful.

 

[Dan Lefever]

Yes, they are industrial grade units that last a long time.
If not working one commercially like ours are, I doubt it would ever need upgrading from using around the farm.
When first getting my Woodmaxx tractor flail, I had lots learn from not ever dragging one around on the 3-point, but Leonz here on TBN was very helpful.

Flails have full length rollers for heighth guaging. Lift arms need to have a float position to allow mower roller to follow ground contour independent of tractor position. Mott actually supplied chain lift arm replacements to allow that function. With out it, on very uneven ground the bearings in the roller end up being heavily stressed and tend to fail early.