58 MPG by 2032

[Grumpycat]

Still odd the Utility sends out thank you messages when consumption drops and pushes rebates for a multitude of energy saving appliances and measures.


If my business is selling electricity why would I spend money and provide incentives to customers for buying less of what I have to offer?

Because in all likelihood they are paying more than they charge you for peaking power and for buying from adjacent utilities.

 

[fatjay]

So you think the tractor dealer should sell your trade for what they paid you?

There is profit built into their 10¢, but to sell your power at 10¢ they get nothing but the bother of billing and shrinkage (loss in the power lines).

While I see your point, it's not really apples to apples. The power company gets to bill transmission without having to worry about additional generation, for existing infrastructure.

Also in a lot of areas, power companies flat out refuse to buy back power. I get it they can choose what they want to pay and receive, but it doesn't incentivize grid tie solar. All these solar companies, government programs, basically snake oil salesmen, telling you how you can't afford to NOT have solar, it's basically free! Then on page 437 of 1200 of the purchase agreement, there's one line of how much you'll be getting paid for selling to the grid. There used to be laws about truth in advertising.

But power companies were asking for this, to ease hte strain on their systems. They even created peak and off peak rates to try and make people prioritize when they use their power.

 

[ultrarunner]

Very true… the mixed signals and never ending rate increases have anyone paying a energy bill questioning.

Neighborhood is a mix with majority not customer owned.

The panels and install provided at no cost sometimes including a section of roof replacement and/or electric panel upgrade.

So far all the early adopters are ecstatic having 20 year contract to buy kW hours at less than half the now utility rate.

One of the guys said a selling point always is do you think PGE will cost more in the future or less… he said never did he think PGE increases would exceed his wildest estimate but it has.

I’m one that owns my system… no software or third party admin for my old system… simple, just the way I like it.

 

[fatjay]

I checked my power bill for august, it just came through. 19k/kwh. July it was 17c/kwh. June it was 14c/kwh. May it was 11c/kwh. Do you think it'll stop there? I don't.

They're going to be basically forcing people to install solar at these rates, i get no less than 3 phone calls a day on my cell phone trying to sell me solar and how it's such an unbelievable deal. Then once people buckle and do, without reading the fine print, their excess will be sold back at next to nothing. So it's effectively preying on the general population.

Then what about people who rent or otherwise don't have an option to install solar? They will be stuck with these insane rates and no choice.

 

[ultrarunner]

I checked my power bill for august, it just came through. 19k/kwh. July it was 17c/kwh. June it was 14c/kwh. May it was 11c/kwh. Do you think it'll stop there? I don't.

They're going to be basically forcing people to install solar at these rates, i get no less than 3 phone calls a day on my cell phone trying to sell me solar and how it's such an unbelievable deal. Then once people buckle and do, without reading the fine print, their excess will be sold back at next to nothing. So it's effectively preying on the general population.

Then what about people who rent or otherwise don't have an option to install solar? They will be stuck with these insane rates and no choice.

No as California is addressing this by income based rate structure so rate paid is tied to ability to pay in the name of equity.

Important to note this is a new program not part of low income existing discounted rates.

PG&E Joins Proposal to Set Utility Rates Based on Income | San Jose Inside

California’s electric rate, among the highest in the country, but the three biggest power companies say low-income customers will save money. Critics doubt it will work.

www.sanjoseinside.com

Reforming CA's Electric Rates for Decarbonization and Equity

NRDC and The Utility Reform Network submitted an electric rate design proposal to the California Public Utilities Commission to promote equity and encourage beneficial electrification. This is the first stage in a regulatory process to implement income-based fixed charges.

www.nrdc.org

 

[fatjay]

No as California is addressing this by income based rate structure so rate paid is tied to ability to pay in the name of equity.

Important to note this is a new program not part of low income existing discounted rates.

PG&E Joins Proposal to Set Utility Rates Based on Income | San Jose Inside

California’s electric rate, among the highest in the country, but the three biggest power companies say low-income customers will save money. Critics doubt it will work.

www.sanjoseinside.com

Reforming CA's Electric Rates for Decarbonization and Equity

NRDC and The Utility Reform Network submitted an electric rate design proposal to the California Public Utilities Commission to promote equity and encourage beneficial electrification. This is the first stage in a regulatory process to implement income-based fixed charges.

www.nrdc.org

That's the most insane thing I've read today.

 

[ultrarunner]

Stay tuned… more to come.

The most important take away is what starts in California rarely stays in California…

Local cities already have banned the sale of future new ICE vehicles ahead of Statewide even being ICE sales provide significant revenue.

These states may join California in banning the sale of gasoline cars

California is expected to officially ban the sale of gas-powered cars by 2035. Experts say more than a dozen other states may do the same.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Grumpycat]

While I see your point, it's not really apples to apples. The power company gets to bill transmission without having to worry about additional generation, for existing infrastructure.

The utility company already has the generators running and if they pay you full retail for your kWh then they were deprived of selling their kWh and making a profit.

Also in a lot of areas, power companies flat out refuse to buy back power. I get it they can choose what they want to pay and receive, but it doesn't incentivize grid tie solar.

Federal law dictates a minimum of the Audited Incremental Cost of Generation. As I said this is 1.5¢/kWh for TVA. Plus fuel surcharges. Hard to swallow, but better than throwing the power away. Problem is the cost of getting the system TVA approved.

The Federal law leaves a loophole for "connection charges". The Alabama PSC has allowed Alabama power to charge so much per kW of potential generation in monthly connection fees as to consume most of what they pay for generated power (assuming a good month). As a result there are almost no PV systems in Alabama Power's covered zones.

To add salt to the wounds, yankees have goaded many Alabama politicians into passing laws mandating occupied dwellings must connect to the utility power grid. Don't want appear to live in shanties. Off grid even with sufficient PV generation and battery storage is illegal in my county for a permanent residence.

 

[Grumpycat]

I checked my power bill for august, it just came through. 19k/kwh. July it was 17c/kwh. June it was 14c/kwh. May it was 11c/kwh. Do you think it'll stop there? I don't.

They're going to be basically forcing people to install solar at these rates, i get no less than 3 phone calls a day on my cell phone trying to sell me solar and how it's such an unbelievable deal. Then once people buckle and do, without reading the fine print, their excess will be sold back at next to nothing. So it's effectively preying on the general population.

Then what about people who rent or otherwise don't have an option to install solar? They will be stuck with these insane rates and no choice.

May I suggest you check with https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels before rejecting solar. Seems to have the best upfront pricing. Also Tesla Powerwalls with a Tesla Energy Gateway is the cat's meow in managing your power generation and consumption.

Tesla watches your weather and will bank power in your Powerwalls if they see a storm coming and potential outage.

 

[fatjay]

May I suggest you check with https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels before rejecting solar. Seems to have the best upfront pricing. Also Tesla Powerwalls with a Tesla Energy Gateway is the cat's meow in managing your power generation and consumption.

Tesla watches your weather and will bank power in your Powerwalls if they see a storm coming and potential outage.

I think you might have misunderstood something I said, I never said I rejected solar. I will not have a managed system though. Powerwall is $10k for 13.5kwh last I checked, which is absurd. Also tesla is booking 3+ years out for the tesla roof.

I have 38x 250w panels in the garage that I'm working on racking as we speak that I picked up for ~45/panel. I'm installing a hybrid inverter with 30kwh battery system. Currently looking at the eg4 13kw split phase inverter for $2700, and the eg4 rack mount 30kw LifePO4 system for $8300. The hybrid inverter will allow me to draw power from the grid in the event that my batteries get low.

I want a system that I manage, not someone else. It will not be connected to the internet. No one will be able to manage my power but me.