Just arrived and hour meter is broken

[Atypical_decorum]

Yes, I would ask that question. As a perfect example; he mentions blades, spark plugs, ect. I would ask about belt and spindles, as those are not directly mentioned. If it shows up with a very worn (but not missing/broken) belt, he should be covered. It works, and he made no claim those where in good shape.

Also, Ebay, was a definition of used vs parts/repair, and they enforce a return policy if not accurate. Fully Operation... that doesn't mean it doesn't sound like a helicopter from bad bearings, and the hour meter has no affect on 'full operation'. If I was buying this mower; 100%, I would want to ask questions.View attachment 822151

I beleive in honor and integrity in business dealing. I don't think I would do business with you, sir.

As for my tractor. They admitted culpability and apologized for the problem. There was a miscommunication in their lisiting/intake area and that's what led to the listing be in error. They are working on a resolution.

 

[slckeys]

Been following the thread for a while and I was watching responses. And unless I missed it, as a hobby user myself, I use the working hour meter to keep track of maintenance records and whatnot. I can see a huge farmer knowing a routine to change oil/hydraulic fluid, grease the fittings etc. But an hour here or 8 there one day, I'm not writing that down after I'm finished for the day. I want to glance at the hour meter, refer to my records and go... hmmm... Time to do the oil next weekend. Not guess on when it might possibly may need done at some point.

I think if they have the previous owner and his records, a discount on maintenance supplies for a bit, and a working tach/hour meter seems fair. But I'm an easy going person too. So I never know if I'm getting a great deal or not. If the OP is happy, then enjoy the machine.

 

[2manyrocks]

Just saw a listing to sell a John Deere 1640 stating "flat back tire, missing window. Will need carburetor work and a battery I'm sure."

Let that one sink in.

 

[Chewwy]

I beleive in honor and integrity in business dealing. I don't think I would do business with you, sir.

. . .

As do I. As well as in personal dealings. However I do not count on anyone I do not know well to always behave that way.

As our former President Ronald Reagan said, “Trust but verify.”

I don’t believe in the tooth fairy either.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Just saw a listing to sell a John Deere 1640 stating "flat back tire, missing window. Will need carburetor work and a battery I'm sure."

Let that one sink in.

 

[paulsharvey]

There is a Big difference between being dishonest, and pointing out the faults in something you're trying to sell. Selling your house, sure got legal obligations, but you wouldn't say, "Come July, this undersized AC isn't going to keep up". They can clearly look at the tonnage, and do their own thinking, or hire an inspector. I'm not saying hiding roof leaks with paint, But anything you sell, you point out the positive, and gloss over the negative.

When I sold my old Kubota recently, I hid nothing, battery is very weak, seat is rough, wiring a mess, and it starts/runs/hydralics work/gears work, and it could probably use a fluid change. Buyer asked, does the hour meter work? "Yes, and it has the whole time I owned it, but I can't say it always has". He notices and I was honest about new steering box/Pittman arm, new coolant, new water pump. If the radiator had straight water in it; is that something you should point out

Didn't mention the shifter boot leaks water in if left out in open rain. Is that dishonest? It's not concealed that the boot is dry rotted, and for a 1976, what do you expect. Minor fuel drips, minor hydralic drips, I didn't point out either. I dont call that dishonest.

What I consider dishonest is an open lie (it's never leaked a drop of oil), or an attempt to conceal a Known problem (bedliner on truck doors, covering spray foam filled rust holes; watched uncle in law do that). Removing a hydralic filter "core" to improve flow, knowing the pump is shot, that's dishonest. Rolling back hours/miles, dishonest. Not mentioning teenage son cut the cats of a truck, IDK, but if you cared, why didn't you crawl under there to check?

Is painting your old Yanmar green and yellow dishonest? Heck, is washing engine bay dishonest?

There is a Lot of grey in life; and I never called myself a Saint.

Just keep in mind, before anyone attacks, I'm probably more honest/open, than 75% of people reselling. These are people you will never see or talk too again, why would you feel they owe you honesty?

 

[paulsharvey]

Also, we have been focused on the Sellers morality; what about the Buyer? You go to an estate sale, and see a JD 4020, in good shape for $800. Do you have a moral responsibility to offer them a fair market value, even though they ask $800? Should you tell them to research the value, and leave? Should you tell the seller "I'll give you $650, but im posting it tomorrow for $4,000"

Is a pawn shop, that loans you $120 on a $800 rifle, morally wrong? Two consenting adults entered into that agreement...

 

[Chewwy]

Just saw a listing to sell a John Deere 1640 stating "flat back tire, missing window. Will need carburetor work and a battery I'm sure."

Let that one sink in.

That carburetor will be very hard to find parts for.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, to be more helpful, gonna move over to another thread, and discuss.

 

[Yander]

Perhaps another lesson would be, don't buy a machine without looking it over. If an hour meter is important to you, make sure it's working before buying. In many cases, it won't be. Most people who are used to dealing with older equipment know this. Hopefully this discussion will help those who are not as experienced.

Do you buy used cars without worrying about the mileage too? Exactly the same. I'm still kind of amazed how many guys on here act like it is not a big deal.

If I'm buying an M Farmall or a Ford 8n. Maybe I don't care as much, I'm spending $3k for it. But if I'm spending $30k for a tractor and I have ill regard for the # of hours, I think I would be the inexperienced one in the conversation.

 

[paulsharvey]

Do you buy used cars without worrying about the mileage too? Exactly the same. I'm still kind of amazed how many guys on here act like it is not a big deal.

If I'm buying an M Farmall or a Ford 8n. Maybe I don't care as much, I'm spending $3k for it. But if I'm spending $30k for a tractor and I have ill regard for the # of hours, I think I would be the inexperienced one in the conversation.

Don't disagree, the hours do factor into the price, but hour meters go bad all the time, and I don't think it's out of line to ask "are the hours right". Not really different than finding a 25 year old truck, with 80,000 miles. Would you ask, are the miles right? When I see M105s, it seems like hours between 2500-7500 hours, priced between $30-40k. Seeing one at the lower end of the price, and lower end of the hours, I would ask them. Not that it prevents fraud, but worth asking.

If I was going to buy the machine below, I would ask if hours are accurate, and would want to look at the machine before making payment.

For the record, I'm glad for the OP, they got something working.

 

[sixdogs]

You've got to watch yourself dealing in these things and there's not much you can do. I had this happen to me once when I bought a local tractor from a dealer when I lived in New England. They said a local farmer owned it.

They told me something like like 800 hours, easy use and I gave them a bank check when they delivered it the next day. I got to looking and the odometer numbers didn't line up like they should. I called Kubota, they checked what dealer info they had and found it was a median mower and had service records--from that dealer-- at over 4,000 hours.

I immediately called the bank, explained the probable fraud thing and stopped payment on the check. Yes, you can do that. Then I waited.

Next day the dealer called me when the bank check bounced and I told him what I had and to come get it. He begged me to let the check clear to keep his "good name" cleared. I didn't.

 

[paulsharvey]

This isn't unique to tractors/heavy equipment. Let's take my work vehicle; 2021 Ford, only 90,000 miles; But it has over 3000 hours on it. My 2005 Chevy 2500HD also had an hour meter, but somewhere around 100,000 miles, the hours meter reset (not something I did), but odometer kept counting accurately. If the work vehicle where to get sold, and the hour meter wasn't checked, or reset somehow, you would think you where getting something else. Yes, there are signs of heavier then normal use, worn steering wheel foam, buttons on radio, etc.

We have probably all seen equipment or vehicles that make you wonder, hmm, is this right? When I worked for a local county, my county truck was in the shop, so they gave me another county truck as a loaner. It was a 94 F150, in 2012 (so, 18 years old, and only had around 50k miles, worn out seat, dry rotted tires, cracked dash, ect). The fact it was a spare shop truck at the county, explains the milage, but if found in the 'wild' as a private sale, you bet I would question it.

That Kubota I sold had very low hours (maybe 1200-1500, don't remember) for a 1976, but im nearly 100% sure it sat, non running, in a field, somewhere for many of its years.

 

[paulsharvey]

Resetting an odometer isn't as easy as it used too be, but it's still possible. Guess what I'm saying is, you need to watch out for yourself, cause you can't expect someone else too.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

The more I think about it the more I side with the OP, hours are EXTREMELY important. Actually, some good may come of it both Tractor House and any selling dealer. A for sale ad should only state hours IF THEY'RE 100% SURE IT'S CORRECT! I believe newer tractors running hours are stored on the computer as well, so that would verify. Any seller having service records would also verify if hours are correct.
The ad needs to state hours if correct, or "hours unknown", etc.
Years ago I passed a car lot and spotted a 1970 AMX. On windshield big letter "low miles only 30,232 miles". The car looked clean...but something not quite right, but odometer showed 30,232 miles (that's back when odometers went to 99,999.9 then zero). I looked in glove box & a bunch of inspection receipts...lot owner standing right there. I asked "are you SURE it only has 30K miles?"..."Absolutely" was his reply. I said "then how come if I put these inspection receipts in chronological order, mileage goes to 30K, 55K, etc all the way to 97K then starts over???". "Let me see those" he said as he grabbed them, taking into his office to burn (I saw through window). That lot was gone soon afterwards.
So yes...hours matter as well as use! An honest dealer would state that as well as if it was a rental, bought at auction, belonged to highway department, etc. If they're aware of any major repairs, etc that should also be stated.
Maybe some positive changes will result and it's a good discussion.

 

[Chewwy]

The more I think about it the more I side with the OP, hours are EXTREMELY important.

So yes...hours matter as well as use! An honest dealer would state that as well as if it was a rental, bought at auction, belonged to highway department, etc. If they're aware of any major repairs, etc that should also be stated.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

That would be a more perfect world. But as your own experience indicates, it’s not the one we live in or are not likely to on this side of the pearly gates.

Assuming the best of someone you don’t know well will often lead to disappointment.

 

[D&D]

This isn't unique to tractors/heavy equipment. Let's take my work vehicle; 2021 Ford, only 90,000 miles; But it has over 3000 hours on it. My 2005 Chevy 2500HD also had an hour meter, but somewhere around 100,000 miles, the hours meter reset (not something I did), but odometer kept counting accurately. If the work vehicle where to get sold, and the hour meter wasn't checked, or reset somehow, you would think you where getting something else.

Good one. Hour meters and pto equipped trucks can run quite different from the odometer.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

That would be a more perfect world. But as your own experience indicates, it’s not the one we live in or are not likely to on this side of the pearly gates.

Assuming the best of someone you don’t know well will often lead to disappointment.

True...however a reputable dealer shouldn't hide things in an ad. They should not state hours unless they're sure of accuracy.
That car experience you know the dealer destroyed evidence then sold car unscrupulously to someone.
If seller isn't sure simply state it!

 

[Fixastuff]

I've seen many ads that state "hour meter reads then the number" guess that's way to put it.

Let's face it on older machines/mowers/anything without the meter made into the cluster the hour meter could have been replaced a couple times and there is no way of knowing.

 

[paulsharvey]

I've seen many ads that state "hour meter reads then the number" guess that's way to put it.

Let's face it on older machines/mowers/anything without the meter made into the cluster the hour meter could have been replaced a couple times and there is no way of knowing.

That's probably the best way to say it, 'shows 1555 hours'. That way, they aren't responsible for inaccuracies.

I think people overestimate how detailed a dealer 'preps' used machines/vehicles. They buy at an auction or take a trade in, detail/wash, and sell. Yes, on giving a price for trade in value, it gets a once over, but that is normally a salesman, and a mechanic probably never touches it. If they buy it at an auction, they pretty much don't get a chance to 'examine' it, till they load it on their trailer, too late to change their mind.