creating a culvert

[ning]

It's not uncommon for TBN to find a $30k solution to a $2k problem

Looks like it's time to buy a bigger tractor!

 

[CADplans]

Looks like it's time to buy a bigger tractor!

Again,, already!!??

 

[paulsharvey]

Understood. Sometimes we all find excellent ways to spend other people's money. Most of us are guilty of solving a problem posters didn't ask us to solve. Part of the culture here at TBN.

I am tuned into this thread because now that my house is basically done, I can move on to water management. We get 47+ inches of rain a year here, but only 83 rainy days...roughly 1/2 inch of rain average per rainy day. Yesterday there was enough condensation on my roof in the morning that the water puddled at the bottom of my downspouts. No creeks, ponds or lakes on the property, but all exist nearby.

You didn't ask, but... swales are a good solution where you can.

 

[MF243RedTop]

Look around on FB marketplace for a large decommissioned propane tank...ones that are usable sometimes come up fairly cheap ...ends would have to be cut out...
but it would Not collapse...make great culverts ...you might get lucky..

 

[LD1]

Look around on FB marketplace for a large decommissioned propane tank...ones that are usable sometimes come up fairly cheap ...ends would have to be cut out...
but it would Not collapse...make great culverts ...you might get lucky..

Another bad idea in MY opinion

Cut the ends off a propane tank.....while thicker metal than a 55gal barrel........it still becomes a thin and flimsy piece of metal that is not difficult to crush.

Add to the fact that you would need SEVERAL propane tanks of the same size to weld together....and torching them.....gonna have more time and money in doing a bad job than just doing it right.

And still back at the diameter of the tanks and amount of fill needed. All for a culvert to cross a ~ 6" deep 2' wide little creek

 

[Alan W.]

I fully understand the fine line that separates saving some stuff vs hoarding ok its definitely a grey area.
20 years ago I put a road in to my basement garage. In doing so I created a small dam in part of the yard. I had “saved” some 8” sewer pipe from a trailer park I had previously built so I used a section of that to drain the area.
Yesterday when I decided to widen the entrance in that area I used the remaining piece and joint that was still ”saved”.
Sometimes using what you have works fine.

 

[ArlyA]

Another bad idea in MY opinion

Cut the ends off a propane tank.....while thicker metal than a 55gal barrel........it still becomes a thin and flimsy piece of metal that is not difficult to crush.

Add to the fact that you would need SEVERAL propane tanks of the same size to weld together....and torching them.....gonna have more time and money in doing a bad job than just doing it right.

And still back at the diameter of the tanks and amount of fill needed. All for a culvert to cross a ~ 6" deep 2' wide little creek

I'll not be in the area when someone goes to cut a old propane tank.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

So, I went back and double checked, and didn't see an answer; but what are we driver across it? You said wheel ruts, so its a vehicle; but are we talking 4 trips per day of passenger vehicles; heavy equipment; delivery vehicles; a compact utility tractor; an ATV/SxS? It's not gonna be an answer you like; but I'll just tell you what I would do; money is tight, 100% understand, and based on the 1st post, you have another longer way to get to the other side of the creek; I would either A: wait till you have the spare cash to do it right; or B: try your barrels; your not out any money if it fails. If you really bed them right, compact material, and have sufficient coverage; they might last 5 years. Anything you do to distribute the load will help; force acts downward and also at angles outward, reducing the point load (we are not applying 2000 pounds to the pipe from our point load, it's probably more like 1000 pounds with 6" cover; 500 pounds at 12" cover; and 250 # at 18" cover as the force goes outward as we move further away). I 'Think' if the barrels survive the back fill process (dirt is Heavy, roughly 100-120#/cf) it will last until corrosion eats the barrel. The substandard pipe material makes proper installation much more important, as you don't have the margine of error.

Practicing Engineers in the group, please don't beat my numbers up too much, I pulled them completely out of my butt.View attachment 826437

Thanks for the reply. Brings a good perspective...
It is a seldom used path, the heaviest being about 2600#, my tractor. Only ruts are made from washout. Closer observation is that sometimes pipe gets semi blocked with debris. I tried at one point to create a funnel at entrance, to guide water in. It works until it gets partially clogged, then the rutting gets ugly. Can't drive lawnmower across. The other path, is actually more convenient in most cases.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Not sure about backfill...but first a 55 gal drum inner diameter is way over 18" right? YOu are going to hvae to dig very deep...and if not graded properly on both sides it will heavily silt in. Nightmare to clean out with that much silt in it.

If you ever have any heavy equipment brought in....most likely they will crush those 55 gal drums. They are not meant to hold much weight from the side of the can.

Are you sure you cannot re-purpose the 12" pipe or find another piece of it that you can mate to your existing pipe?

No matter what you choose make sure you use good packing material on both sides of the pipe (2" down to fines if you can) and compact it a few times before you start driving over it. As mentioned if you do not compact well, forces will move he pipe in the trench and create areas for water infiltration. This and grade on trench both sides (inlet and outlet) are probably the most critical points to proper installation.

Thank you. Very useful.
The more people like you chime in with useful info, the better understanding I have of issues. I am currently looking for used pipe, tough find in these parts. Slope is an issue as well. Guessing 4" max over 10' or so. It doesn't help that the pipe at exit end was cracked on top half and push down, creating resistance for leaves. I think this pipe was laid down to allow electric company access for their sxs. Fill is 6" on top max.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

The thought-out comment was the fact that the barrels are ALOT larger than the current setup. Which requires ALOT of material to cover, and somehow keep the barrels together.

Then as others mentioned....heavy equipment....

Dont want to have an emergency, fire, etc and a squad or firetruck crushes and gets stuck.

Sorry, but im it the camp of do it right or dont do it at all. Especially when it comes to something that can hurt something (equipment/vehicles)....or someone.

Thanks for trying. If you read posts, you'd realize that my tractor is the max weight, it is only an access point for me, and electric company.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

ok thinking out of the wrong end here but but wondering
could you dig a ditch
put something like rebar chairs down
put the barrels in
pour a few inches of concrete
pour a few more inches of concrete, hopefully with something to keep the barrels down
keep pouring a bit more concrete, perhaps some rebar here and there
and end up with a cheap-ish concrete culvert by using the sides of the ditch and the barrel as a form?
probably way too much work and needs enough rebar that you'd be better off buying a corrugated culvert...

Thanks for reply. Some of you are looking at me building something way over engineered. I am driving a 2600# tractor over a small stream. Current set up worked until it was partially cut/squashed near an end. And it still functions as long as I stay up on keeping it clear, which I forget, since I rarely use, and then damage is done. Money IS an object here.

 

[scootr]

If you search CL and FB you may find some free culvert. I did.

 

[dougtrr2]

Thanks for trying. If you read posts, you'd realize that my tractor is the max weight, it is only an access point for me, and electric company.

Any chance the electric company can contribute to this project??

Doug in SW IA

 

[scootr]

Any chance the electric company can contribute to this project??

Doug in SW IA

Seems like the utility company will easily exceed your tractor weight with any vehicle they use.

 

[tfuller]

I'll not be in the area when someone goes to cut a old propane tank.

Its not a problem if you do it correctly. Fill the tank with water to displace any remaining propane and you can cut it without issue. Have seen several done this way to make trailer grills etc

 

[ArlyA]

Its not a problem if you do it correctly. Fill the tank with water to displace any remaining propane and you can cut it without issue. Have seen several done this way to make trailer grills etc

How are you cutting it? I worked in the oil patch for years, still don't like doing it.

 

[tfuller]

How are you cutting it? I worked in the oil patch for years, still don't like doing it.

I have seen it done with a torch but I am sure a cutting a disk or plasma could also work.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I made two creek crossings, one is down to bedrock and I dammed the upstream side with some rip rap so crossing place is wide and shallow. Other is a 4ft x 24ft galvanized corrugated pipe since there the creek was down about 6-7ft. I dug it sloped back then some #57s in, rolled pipe in, then layered clay & 57s. It never gets clogged and of course sloped a little downhill for creek flow.
It wasn't cheap but will work for years.
At my homeplace where driveway crosses creek over the years they tried a variety of things. Now it's a mixture of 6" to 3ft pipes, plastic, concrete, steel, etc. Right now it's almost ready to wash out...always giving trouble.

 

[Jchonline]

Thank you. Very useful.
The more people like you chime in with useful info, the better understanding I have of issues. I am currently looking for used pipe, tough find in these parts. Slope is an issue as well. Guessing 4" max over 10' or so. It doesn't help that the pipe at exit end was cracked on top half and push down, creating resistance for leaves. I think this pipe was laid down to allow electric company access for their sxs. Fill is 6" on top max.

Pictures would help, but the ideal situation is to:

1. dig it all out, try and save the pipe if you can.
2. shoot grade on both sides, 4 in over 10 ft of fall is just fine. Key here is to ensure the inlet is also properly graded and compacted. I do a gradual slope into the inlet....say over 10 feet so you can to reduce the rush of water right up to the pipe (think prevent a waterfall that will erode under the pipe inlet).
3. place pipe, fill carefully at least 6" on top of a 12" pipe (do NOT hit the pipe when filling...I have done this on 2 x 20 ft sections and pulled them apart in the middle...had to dig it all out and redo it...never again) with 2 minus to fines or some well compacting road base.
4. compact both sides of pipe well
5. Fill over and grade road over pipe

 

[Jchonline]

Thanks for trying. If you read posts, you'd realize that my tractor is the max weight, it is only an access point for me, and electric company.

Electric company will probably bring a bucket truck at a minimum....19k lbs. If that is the case I doubt the 55 gal drums will hold up well.