Stuck in the pond

[ptsg]

Even full size backhoes just run R1 tread these days. Same for Ag telehandlers.

 

[Hay Dude]

A full size backhoe weighs substantially more than a farm tractor. Of course they get stuck worse. All R4 an aren’t equal either. Some have huge block treads with maybe an inch between them. Those are pretty useless. Others have fairly skinny lugs with a big gap between them that are pretty comparable to R-1s.

Does it? Can men have babies, too?

I’ve got 2 farm tractors one weighs 19,000 and the other weighs 24,000.
My Case Super M didn’t weigh that much. Maybe 17,500.

https://www.ritchiespecs.com/model/case-580-super-m-loader-backhoe

R4’s are NOT comparable to R-1’s. Ain’t no way in hell. If they were, farmers would run them In muddy fields, but they don’t.
Anytime you want to compare traction between what you got with R-4’s and what I got with R-1’s in mud, let me know. I want to be there.

 

[Hay Dude]

Even full size backhoes just run R1 tread these days. Same for Ag telehandlers.

View attachment 827773 View attachment 827774

Now that’s a really smart option for users who are primarily in dirt, fields & mud.

Would love to have an AG telehandler!!!

 

[Hay Dude]

I did that 60 years ago with Grandad's Farmall mowing too close to lake. All it takes is one revolution of mud in tires and you have drag slicks regardless of tread. We were close to a tractor dealership and owner felt sorry for the kid!. He used a '30s John Deere 2 cylinder, large chain. Sounded like engine was running about 300 rpm (putt-putt-putt)...never changed pitch. Dragged it out & I forgot leaving it in gear!

Sorry, but I don’t agree with that. I have decades of experience using both types of tire.
First, the AG tire in that 1st revolution will get much more traction and probably get you out of the mud Where the R-4 will more likely sit & spin. The reason is the cleats are much taller and more angular.
Second, once the mud begins to pack, the AG tread will throw the mud out better and do a better job of cleaning themselves out.

 

[workinonit]

R-4's are much easier on the lawn, it's a compromise for me. If I need more traction, step one, FWA, step two, Chains, step three, get out the ice melt and go in the house.

This depends on what damage you are talking about. If you are referring to rutting when the ground is wet then maybe the R1s will be worse but probably not. I don't cut grass when the ground is wet enough that tires are going to tear it up. If you are referring to mashing the grass down ahead of a finish mower or bush hog then that statement is absolutely not true. R1s have less surface area touching the ground if the ground is not wet. R4s have much more surface area and mash much more grass down. I've run them both as well as turf tires and give me R1s any day. Besides I have to have R1s for farming.

 

[Pearlsnaps]

Well I appreciate all the replies. Especially about the tire choice. The deal I got on the tractor says it came with R4's instead of R1's. My old yanmar gray model tractor had r1's and I never got it stuck, but it was also a 25 horse. My intentions were just to clean the bank out a little bit so the meat pigs didn't have to be manually watered every single day. We live mostly off grid and pumping water to their old pin would have been cost prohibitive instead of just adding them some access to the pond.
And the mud was that nasty, greasy muck mud that even barefoot I would sink to my knees. When I went to stop the first time I tried it, my tires just went all the way down to the black clay underneath all that muck. I immediately tried going backwards, and that's what loaded all the tires.
Thanks for the replies everyone!
Happy Friday

 

[dieselscout80]

Even full size backhoes just run R1 tread these days. Same for Ag telehandlers.

View attachment 827773 View attachment 827774

I am not sure those are R1 tires.

My rear BTK RT 747 tires look like R1 tires, but they are R4 with a R1 tread pattern.

Michelin is another tire manufacture that has a R4 tire with the R1 pattern lugs, but they were way more $,$$$.

17.5LR24 Tires w/ R1 Tread

I had Titan 17.5L24 R4 tires on my New Holland TC45DA and they provided terrible traction, so I set out to find a R1 type tire. I only found one 17.5LR24 / 460/70LR24 tire with a R1 tread pattern the BKT RT 747. https://www.bkt-tires.com/ww/us/rt-747-agro-industrial The RT 747 is a radial and...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[2manyrocks]

The words winch and recovery have been used here so many times I can't find the thread that was posted here within the last six months. It linked to a YT video discussing a recovery accident where a truck was stuck in the mud, and the driver was killed when part of the hitch flew into the vehicle's windshield.

Anyway, when something is stuck in the mud, there's a heck of a lot more force required than simply pulling a 5,000lb tractor on flat, dry ground.

But if someone else can link to the previous thread, there was some good information there about avoiding a very bad recovery accident.

 

[Atypical_decorum]

Sorry, but I don’t agree with that. I have decades of experience using both types of tire.
First, the AG tire in that 1st revolution will get much more traction and probably get you out of the mud Where the R-4 will more likely sit & spin. The reason is the cleats are much taller and more angular.
Second, once the mud begins to pack, the AG tread will throw the mud out better and do a better job of cleaning themselves out.

They didn't with mine. And in as fast a gear as I had, it didn't clear the tread. 2/3rd of my tire had sunk in as it slid down the side. And I have wide tires, about 2x wider than stock,

 

[WranglerX]

Really don't think it has anything to do with tires, think it has to do with the mud.... Crossed a soft bottom of a seasonal creek maybe 5 times, on last crossing tractor just sunk into bottom mud, tire type has little to do with situation the front axle is buried and up to chassis in really soft mud..... Tractor was literally cemented in mud, no tires in the world was going to get it out, even trying to lift with FEL failed, pulled up jeep with 10,000lb winch, and tractor was so anchored it slid the 4,500 pound JEEP across the ground and had to block all four wheels to even get tractor to move.... And it is a small tractor....

 

[Atypical_decorum]

The words winch and recovery have been used here so many times I can't find the thread that was posted here within the last six months. It linked to a YT video discussing a recovery accident where a truck was stuck in the mud, and the driver was killed when part of the hitch flew into the vehicle's windshield.

Anyway, when something is stuck in the mud, there's a heck of a lot more force required than simply pulling a 5,000lb tractor on flat, dry ground.

But if someone else can link to the previous thread, there was some good information there about avoiding a very bad recovery accident.

Agreed. But that accident and the one with the kid that have a shackle rip his jaw off were both using nylon straps as far as I know and we're in the wrong spot. Dyneema doesn't do that and wire does it, but not greatly. Snatch blocks will increase the force to where it'll pull bolts out as long as the line can handle it. But regardless, never stand in the way! Or by something that the line can wrap around.

There's 10s of thousands of off roaders using winches, daily, around the world. A ripped off jaw or a killed person happens seldomly and then typically when they dont use common sense safety....

 

[Xfaxman]

Would love to have an AG telehandler!!!

I swapped the front tires side to side, reversing the tread, on my V518 when I was removing silt from my pond.
It gave me more traction backing up, I could really tell the difference.

From 2013 my first compact telehandler.
Notice the tread direction of the front tires:

 

[Jstpssng]

Agreed. But that accident and the one with the kid that have a shackle rip his jaw off were both using nylon straps as far as I know and we're in the wrong spot. Dyneema doesn't do that and wire does it, but not greatly. Snatch blocks will increase the force to where it'll pull bolts out as long as the line can handle it. But regardless, never stand in the way! Or by something that the line can wrap around.

There's 10s of thousands of off roaders using winches, daily, around the world. A ripped off jaw or a killed person happens seldomly and then typically when they dont use common sense safety....

The one I believe he was referring to happened when they tried to snap it out, rather than use a winch. There were a myriad of youtube videos in response to that. I have always preferred to winch rather than try to pull somebody out- you are a lot less apt to get hurt or to break something.

 

[big bubba]

OP: glad it worked out for you...any deeper & would have sacrificed the engine. consider yourself fortunate, regards

 

[Hay Dude]

I swapped the front tires side to side, reversing the tread, on my V518 when I was removing silt from my pond.
It gave me more traction backing up, I could really tell the difference.

From 2013 my first compact telehandler.
Notice the tread direction of the front tires:

View attachment 827814View attachment 827815View attachment 827816View attachment 827817

I did same on my JCB Fastrac. It reduced high speed tire noise.

 

[Hay Dude]

Really don't think it has anything to do with tires, think it has to do with the mud.... Crossed a soft bottom of a seasonal creek maybe 5 times, on last crossing tractor just sunk into bottom mud, tire type has little to do with situation the front axle is buried and up to chassis in really soft mud..... Tractor was literally cemented in mud, no tires in the world was going to get it out, even trying to lift with FEL failed, pulled up jeep with 10,000lb winch, and tractor was so anchored it slid the 4,500 pound JEEP across the ground and had to block all four wheels to even get tractor to move.... And it is a small tractor....

Of course that can happen if you just drive a tractor into 3’ of mud, quicksand, pond, etc. but when we’re discussing what tires are better in 1”-24” of mud, I’d bet R-1’s do better 100% of the time.

I mean let’s put it this way: You and I both own Jeeps. We have to drive through various obstacles like soft dirt, mud, etc.

You think if we both have same Jeeps with equal driving skills, that the Jeep with new mudders doesn’t go farther than a Jeep with new all season tires???

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

My point was of course more aggressive tread helps...but in wet sticky mud once caked on they become slicks. There are lots of youtube videos people getting a tractor out chaining an 8ft post to wheel.

 

[Camofurever1]

I am not sure those are R1 tires.

My rear BTK 747 tires look like R1 tires, but they are R4 with a R1 tread pattern.

Michelin is another tire manufacture that has a R4 tire with the R1 pattern lugs, but they were way more $,$$$.

17.5LR24 Tires w/ R1 Tread

I had Titan 17.5L24 R4 tires on my New Holland TC45DA and they provided terrible traction, so I set out to find a R1 type tire. I only found one 17.5LR24 / 460/70LR24 tire with a R1 tread pattern the BKT RT 747. https://www.bkt-tires.com/ww/us/rt-747-agro-industrial The RT 747 is a radial and...

www.tractorbynet.com

R14s?

 

[dieselscout80]

R14s?

No the BTK 747 is not a R14 tire.

Did you see the picture of my rear tires?

 

[4570Man]

Does it? Can men have babies, too?

I’ve got 2 farm tractors one weighs 19,000 and the other weighs 24,000.
My Case Super M didn’t weigh that much. Maybe 17,500.

https://www.ritchiespecs.com/model/case-580-super-m-loader-backhoe

R4’s are NOT comparable to R-1’s. Ain’t no way in hell. If they were, farmers would run them In muddy fields, but they don’t.
Anytime you want to compare traction between what you got with R-4’s and what I got with R-1’s in mud, let me know. I want to be there.

Doesn’t the tractor run duels as well as much taller front tires and a lot better weight distribution? The backhoe definitely has lousy traction in mud but putting R1s on it wouldn’t make a revolutionary difference. It’s still going to get stuck all the time.