Mahindra Max 22 Won't turn over

[FrankInSC]

Hi folks, I'm looking for a little help. I have a 2012 Mahindra Max 22 with 490 hours. Only problem before my current issue was a bad fuel shut off solenoid in 2015. The problem I'm experiencing is that when I turn the ignition switch to warm up, the tractor it goes through the usual chattering then a click and the glow plug and battery indicators illuminate. At this point I used to go to start and the solenoid would engage and the engine would turn over. Now I get the solenoid click but the starter doesn't start and I hear some relay chatter and the battery light goes out and the glow plug indicator goes dim - about half of normal intensity. Some additional data, when the key is off I have 12.8 volts at F1 and F2 nothing at F3-F6, battery is 12.8 v. When I place key in warm up voltage is 12.5 volts at F1-F6.
Another observation is if I try to start again in quick succession to the first attempt I see the following: Key off F1-F2 12.8 volts F3-F6, 0 volts (battery 12.8 v). Key on warm up F1-F6, 4.5 volts glow plug indicator dim, battery indicator off, (battery still 12.8v)
A little recent history, battery died over summer so it was replaced with a new battery which worked great until the recent problem. I am pretty knowledgeable with ICE engines but not great with diesel (but I want to learn). I have a background in electronics/electrical work but am now retired.
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[seville009]

I can’t answer your questions, but I always try to see if it’s something simple first. If it were me, I’d try a known good battery first before trying anything else. You never know……

 

[FrankInSC]

Thanks for the suggestion. I do suspect that it is an electrical problem so just to eliminate the possibility I swapped in a different battery even though the tractor battery is new...strange things sometimes happen...but unfortunately, with different battery, same result.

 

[Peter 315]

Did you check the ground cable to make sure its good..

 

[FrankInSC]

Ground cable was easy to trace out and is in very good condition. Thanks

 

[YanmarFever]

As Seville mentioned, check the ground cable where it attaches to the frame.

Remove the cable and wire brush (the frame and cable end,) simple things first.

 

[arrow]

Could be you have a wire fray or short at the start position.
Mice are very good at creating electrical havoc.

 

[FrankInSC]

As Seville mentioned, check the ground cable where it attaches to the frame.

Remove the cable and wire brush (the frame and cable end,) simple things first.

I did a resistance check between the engine and negative battery terminal and it was zero ohms but in a high current situation it's possible that there is a breakdown in the connection. I'll give this a try as well. Thanks

 

[FrankInSC]

Could be you have a wire fray or short at the start position.
Mice are very good at creating electrical havoc.

I spent quite a while going over the electrical drawings last night and came up with a few ideas to check...mice wasn't one of them. However, I do seem to get some unwelcome visitors every fall and winter so I'll have to add that to the list. My experience in life is that anything that moves is likely to fail at some point. Do you think the timer or relays could be my problem? Thanks for the suggestion. I see a lot of voltage checks in my future.

 

[RjCorazza]

Remove and clean all high current cable connections, including on the starter itself. A high resistance connection will cause those symptoms.
Another possibility is cumulative resistance in the safety switches, ignition switch, and starter solenoid. Get a voltage reading at the solenoid (while in the crank position) to see if the voltage is adequate to fully engaged the solenoid. A work around typically done for low voltage on the trigger wire is to add a relay that provides the solenoid with 12v directly from the battery. I installed several relay kits on my zero turns to fix "click click" starting problems.

 

[arrow]

I spent quite a while going over the electrical drawings last night and came up with a few ideas to check...mice wasn't one of them. However, I do seem to get some unwelcome visitors every fall and winter so I'll have to add that to the list. My experience in life is that anything that moves is likely to fail at some point. Do you think the timer or relays could be my problem? Thanks for the suggestion. I see a lot of voltage checks in my future.

Lift t the seat and find the safety cut off switch.
By pass the switch with a jumper after unplugging the connection.
See if it starts. Not meaning to insult but did you also check fuses?
I do not think you have a relay problem if they are engaging by your description.

 

[FrankInSC]

Remove and clean all high current cable connections, including on the starter itself. A high resistance connection will cause those symptoms.
Another possibility is cumulative resistance in the safety switches, ignition switch, and starter solenoid. Get a voltage reading at the solenoid (while in the crank position) to see if the voltage is adequate to fully engaged the solenoid. A work around typically done for low voltage on the trigger wire is to add a relay that provides the solenoid with 12v directly from the battery. I installed several relay kits on my zero turns to fix "click click" starting problems.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not real diesel expert...far from it but, I do have a lot of electrical experience and what I'm seeing leads me to think there is a problem when there is a high current demand. I've given serious thought to bypassing all of the safety interlocks just to eliminate the possibility of one acting up since they are in series. I've also considered using a heavy cable from the battery directly to the starter to see if it cranks. I'll try your suggestions over the next few days. Thanks again.

 

[FrankInSC]

Lift t the seat and find the safety cut off switch.
By pass the switch with a jumper after unplugging the connection.
See if it starts. Not meaning to insult but did you also check fuses?
I do not think you have a relay problem if they are engaging by your description.

I'm going to bypass all the safety switches just to eliminate the possibility one is the culprit. I know in the past I've had to mess with the pto lever to get it to turn over but in that case it was all or nothing, I would turn the key and it would start or it would do nothing until I repositioned the pto lever. This problem is different, it seems to occur when there is a high current demand. All fuses are good, no insult taken, sometimes one can completely overlook the obvious so everything is on the table. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[arrow]

I'm going to bypass all the safety switches just to eliminate the possibility one is the culprit. I know in the past I've had to mess with the pto lever to get it to turn over but in that case it was all or nothing, I would turn the key and it would start or it would do nothing until I repositioned the pto lever. This problem is different, it seems to occur when there is a high current demand. All fuses are good, no insult taken, sometimes one can completely overlook the obvious so everything is on the table. Thanks for the suggestions.

The seat safety switch is a known culprit.
I’ve had to fix 3 of these in the field over the past 6 yrs.
l would start there first because it’s so easy.
Unplug the connection, insert jumper wire from A to B female so as to create continuity and start her up.

 

[etpm]

Two possibilities I can suggest. On my tractor the negative cable looked great but after unbolting it from the frame I found corrosion from rodent urine causing a bad connection. Then a few years later the starter would click but not turn. It was the contact inside the solenoid that was bad.
Eric

 

[FrankInSC]

Thanks for the replies. Still working the problem, trying to be methodical starting at the ignition switch and safety switches and working forward. When I removed the plastic cover (dashboard? )containing the ignition switch, odometer etc, I was amazed at how much dirt had accumulated there, in some areas it was a half inch thick and more. I would not be at all surprised if the connectors in this area were corroded. I will post again after next troubleshooting session.

 

[FrankInSC]

Thanks for the replies. Still working the problem, trying to be methodical starting at the ignition switch and safety switches and working forward. When I removed the plastic cover (dashboard? )containing the ignition switch, odometer etc, I was amazed at how much dirt had accumulated there, in some areas it was a half inch thick and more. I would not be at all surprised if the connectors in this area were corroded. I will post again after next troubleshooting session.

One new question though. According to the wiring diagram, when the key is placed in ON position it should energize the load relay. It is doing that but its not like on or off. When it's on, the load relay chatters. My experience with relays is on is on, no chatter, but when I swapped the load relay with the safety relay it does the same thing. Any thoughts as to what is causing the chatter?

 

[LittleBill21]

One new question though. According to the wiring diagram, when the key is placed in ON position it should energize the load relay. It is doing that but its not like on or off. When it's on, the load relay chatters. My experience with relays is on is on, no chatter, but when I swapped the load relay with the safety relay it does the same thing. Any thoughts as to what is causing the chatter?

i would check the voltage at the relay, its prolly low.

if it is, I have read and have not experienced it, but there is a large wire bundle on the right side near the throttle in the dash, that is crimped together, this apparently corrodes and can cause large voltage loss.

 

[johnsonauto]

One new question though. According to the wiring diagram, when the key is placed in ON position it should energize the load relay. It is doing that but its not like on or off. When it's on, the load relay chatters. My experience with relays is on is on, no chatter, but when I swapped the load relay with the safety relay it does the same thing. Any thoughts as to what is causing the chatter?

One new question though. According to the wiring diagram, when the key is placed in ON position it should energize the load relay. It is doing that but its not like on or off. When it's on, the load relay chatters. My experience with relays is on is on, no chatter, but when I swapped the load relay with the safety relay it does the same thing. Any thoughts as to what is causing the chatter?

It is more than likely chattering due to low voltage, check voltage at the relay, check the positive battery cable and if i remember correctly there is a connection off the positive cable to some smaller wires, look for dirty connection there.

 

[arrow]

One new question though. According to the wiring diagram, when the key is placed in ON position it should energize the load relay. It is doing that but its not like on or off. When it's on, the load relay chatters. My experience with relays is on is on, no chatter, but when I swapped the load relay with the safety relay it does the same thing. Any thoughts as to what is causing the chatter?

It chatters. They all do on most Mahindras