slightly twisted bucket arms.

[rScotty]

As far as shrinking or stretching, it is common to do with light sheet metal. However, it may well be different to do with heavy box steel.

If one can predict how metal moves with welding, perhaps one could control stretching/shrinking with heat.

However, I'd probably try to straighten it cold. A car body shop with a frame machine could likely either straighten the bent side, or bend the other side to match (which may avoid the length issue).

I think the problem here is simply definitions. We all shape metal when we need to. Metallurgy looks at the chemical structure, and metalworking at the physical shape.

Bending metal until it yields causes it to stretch in the plane of the bend - there's no getting around that. But as several posters have pointed out, there are some practical ways to deal with the stretched metal so that the stretching and thinnng is controllable to get to where we want to go.

For example, if bending has caused a box beam or loader arm to become too long in the plane of the bend, it is common to "shrink" the beam lengthwise by forcing it to become thicker in a plane at right angles to the original bend. So what posters are saying is that metal worker can compensate for the original change in length by forcing the metal to thicken in a different direction. That works of course - we all do that in the shop. The exact same thing works in sheetmetal - you flatten (shrink) a dent it in one plane by pounding it to make it flat - but it grows in the other plane so it is larger. A bent washer is easy to flatten on an anvil, but it becomes a slightly larger diameter on the outside edges.

The metal didn't "shrink", it can't. Without huge atomic forces we can't make it much more dense. All we can do is remove voids, and steel doesn't have many of those. What we do is bend it around to become thicker in a different plane. We "shrink" it in the direction we care about by making it stretch in a direction that doesn't matter.

The art of metalworking is moving the metal around so that it is right in the dimension that you care about and it bulges in a direction that doesn't matter.
rScotty

 

[gravelman]

great explanation...thanks much

 

[big bubba]

OP: very likely just your torsion bar connecting the 2 arms is torqued so one side is unequal to the other. the arms themselves may not be bent. as suggested, do a forum search on the subject. it happened to my rig when one of the qr levers came undone. there are a few methods to correct w/o having to replace the bar itself. regards

 

[gravelman]

as a matter of fact i did twist that torsion bar....heated it up and got it as straight as i could. Might need another looksee thanks for that

 

[Mike1955]

I think the problem here is simply definitions. We all shape metal when we need to. Metallurgy looks at the chemical structure, and metalworking at the physical shape.

Bending metal until it yields causes it to stretch in the plane of the bend - there's no getting around that. But as several posters have pointed out, there are some practical ways to deal with the stretched metal so that the stretching and thinnng is controllable to get to where we want to go.

For example, if bending has caused a box beam or loader arm to become too long in the plane of the bend, it is common to "shrink" the beam lengthwise by forcing it to become thicker in a plane at right angles to the original bend. So what posters are saying is that metal worker can compensate for the original change in length by forcing the metal to thicken in a different direction. That works of course - we all do that in the shop. The exact same thing works in sheetmetal - you flatten (shrink) a dent it in one plane by pounding it to make it flat - but it grows in the other plane so it is larger. A bent washer is easy to flatten on an anvil, but it becomes a slightly larger diameter on the outside edges.

The metal didn't "shrink", it can't. Without huge atomic forces we can't make it much more dense. All we can do is remove voids, and steel doesn't have many of those. What we do is bend it around to become thicker in a different plane. We "shrink" it in the direction we care about by making it stretch in a direction that doesn't matter.

The art of metalworking is moving the metal around so that it is right in the dimension that you care about and it bulges in a direction that doesn't matter.
rScotty

I enjoyed that post. Informative to a man who has worked with metal a lifetime.

 

[rScotty]

I enjoyed that post. Informative to a man who has worked with metal a lifetime.

Glad you enjoyed it. I was a self-taught metal worker for 25 years. Then went to school and learned about metals and materials from a whole different perspective.
Both equally good.
rScotty

 

[J33per]

I had this issue with my used BX when I got it. Backstory was the owners kid crashed into it with a car. Dealership replaced the loader but still had a teak to it. I had to put washers on the loader brackets on the bottom bolts for one side and the top of the other side. Now it sits level and doing good for the past 3 years. I think the fram was tweaked when it got hit.

 

[NoTrespassing]

When I first bought my slightly used tractor the dealer had it in the shop on concrete and I noticed the bucket wasn't flat on the floor. They adjusted the rear tire air pressure slightly and got it within about a 1/2 inch or so. Personally, I don't really care, if it's within 2 inches left to right on a 6 ft. bucket it's good enough for me, I just use it.

 

[Len B]

I am by no means as knowledgeable as any of the previous posters but I will add my 2 cents. Stupidly, I was moving some dirt with my B2301 and failed to lock in the quick attach levers. After a couple of bucket loads, the bucket came off one side and twisted the loader. The two sides were noticeably out of sync. Searching this forum, I found someone’s post that directly applied and followed the directions to twist the loader back into position. My torque tube was not cracked so no cutting/welding was needed. Before I “fixed” my issue, I put in a call to the service department (closed of course at the time). When he called me back on Monday, I had already gotten things aligned and he told me that this was a common issue that they frequently took care of by taking the tractor out to their loading dock and pressing the quick attach plates against it to bend things in the opposite direction……long story short, the bucket now fits better than it had when I got the tractor. One side had always been harder to lock in than the other. I am keeping a close eye on the tube connecting the two arms for any signs of cracking but so far, all is good. Granted this is a small tractor and is not called on for the loads a bigger tractor would be so it will probably be OK for some time.

 

[P113565]

as a matter of fact i did twist that torsion bar....heated it up and got it as straight as i could. Might need another looksee thanks for that

My L525 torsion bar twisted when one of the QR brackets unlatched w the grapple on. I had a full load of brush in the grapple and one of the limbs hit the QR arm when I was unloading, completely user error for not having a clean grapple load.
I man periodically ‘recalibrating‘ it, without the loader, against a tree. So far I have gotten 2” of the 5” resolved. I can still get the QR to attach with the uneven arms, it just takes some persuading.
I may file an insurance claim with Kubota just before I get the machine paid off. I hate to lose use of the L2501 while waiting for it to get fixed.

 

[Mkoz]

I did the same thing on my Kubota M59 a couple of years ago. That round tube between the loader arms (aka torque tube) is the sacrificial piece that is designed to absorb abuse (like mine!) and deform rather than doing significant structural damage to the arms or frame components. I had a friend of a friend come out and cut the tube and re-weld it with the fel bucket laying flat on the ground. Problem solved.

 

[JBacon52]

My L525 torsion bar twisted when one of the QR brackets unlatched w the grapple on. I had a full load of brush in the grapple and one of the limbs hit the QR arm when I was unloading, completely user error for not having a clean grapple load.
I man periodically ‘recalibrating‘ it, without the loader, against a tree. So far I have gotten 2” of the 5” resolved. I can still get the QR to attach with the uneven arms, it just takes some persuading.
I may file an insurance claim with Kubota just before I get the machine paid off. I hate to lose use of the L2501 while waiting for it to get fixed.

I'm not sure what your insurance claim would be for? That sounds like operator error to me, eh?

 

[NYlumberman]

Metal has a memory, that’s why springs work. I spent my working life as a millwright in the sawmill industry. There were many times when a derailed log carriage was twisted so all the wheels didn’t touch the track. It took the better part of a day and a rosebud to heat and then allow to cool the “stretched” area in small sections. Slowly the carriage would return to its original shape confirmed with a machinist level. The trick was to heat the spot you were heating to “straw” just before it would begin to glow then let it cool. You will need to work in sections if it is a long bend. What is required is a good rosebud, not necessarily a big one, a straight edge, patience and persistence.
Or you could just bend the other side to match like I did on the Minneapolis Moline Jetstar 3 I restored, it was easy because there was no relief valve.

 

[DieselBound]

I've been operating with an un-level loader on my Kioti since day 1. I had it at the dealers and they told me they replaced the loader: I never got any proof they did, no serial numbers or anything. The "replacement" was the same. I do believe, however, that they replaced one of the cradles that the rear, lower part of the loader pins-to: it's also an engine mount? (sorry, memory eludes me and I'm not looking at the tractor); all evidenced by their use of crappy bolts that show rust (some bolts). Point here is that it could very well be an issue of the tractor body/engine mounts or whatever and not the loader itself. I've measured things so much I don't want to bother anymore. And further, for me, nothing I operate on/with is level anyway!

To check the loader you do NOT reference the ground (too many variables!), you reference points on the loader and the tractor frame itself. Measure from the bucket pins to various other pins (and back to the rear mount point). Measuring crosswise across loader points you should be able to determine if the torque tube is messed up: this would tend to also show up in other measurements, though perhaps more subtly. IF the loader is out of whack then one side will produce disparate measurements. IF the loader is fine then it's possibly the attachment points on the tractor itself (which is what my dealer seems to have suspected but didn't seem to rectify?).

All said, on my Kioti I discovered that the front grill "protector" wasn't level. This cause the levelness of my loader's torque tube to appear to be worse than what it was as the two are out of level in opposing directions. It was this that first caught my attention: looking out over the hood and see that one side of the torque tube was significantly higher in relation to the top of the grill guard than on the other side.

 

[ksbrdmkr]

I agree that measurements should be taken, and a thorough evaluation needs to be done. Frequently the issue is the crossover tube being twisted, with the sure fix being to cut, realign, and reweld the crossover tube.

I did this very thing to my neighbors kubota. Cut the tube and reweld with a plate in between