Vineyard hiller build thread

[UncleW]

I’ve gotten advice on some of the design elements & thought I’d show my sorta good enuf build

I was trying to build a 3pt attachment that would let me hill up around my grape vines to cover the graft union for winter. I stole this design from Michigan State U

Two hiller discs to toss up soil, a coulter disc down the center to offset (some) of the steering torque from the hiller disc and a gauge wheel (cause it seemed like a good idea)

I was planning to oxy acetylene braze & weld this, but the temperatures have been in the 20’s and the acetylene went south for the winter. My neighbor had a 1970’s vintage Forney plug and play 220v arc machine that I brought back to life & I decided to teach myself to arc weld. 7018, I found out, doesn’t run well on old AC machines, so I wasted a day and a half learning how to grind out stuck rods. I finally got 6013 to light up and made a bunch of awful looking, but probably good enuf welds. Then the weather went worse and no way I was going to use his Forney outside where the plug is. Bought a Hone brand inverter welder on Amazon for $75 and a 5lb box of 6013 and finished it up. Suprisingly nice welds (for me) on 110v 90 Amp 3/32 rod. Hate the weld pool on 6013, but the farm store didn’t have much else.

The contraption attaches to a 3PT 2” receiver hitch that I use for my sprayer. Tubing is 2” square 1/4” wall

Tube frame is mounted to the front tool bar with 2 1/2” 3/16” wall welded into a cross shape with 1/2” captive nuts. Nuts were Grade 8 until I welded them.

Hiller discs and toolbar mounts were from Tilmor

Coulter disc was a bit of a challenge. I couldnt find a cheap ag hub, so I bought a scratch and dent 4 on 4” bolt circle trailer off ebay. Coulter disc was also ebay, but bolt circle was metric and not even close. Drill a 4” bolt circle, I said! Hadnt thought of it, but discs are probably Rockwell 50. And then work harden as you drill them. Ended up spot annealing and drilling with a cobalt bit. Also not easy to lay out a 4” bolt circle on something with a big hub hole in the center. Ended up welding up the hole and redrilling. Not saying how many times

Had to use something from the boneyard, so coulter mount is from the neighbors scrap pile. IH plow shank should be plenty strong ;-) but welding to 1” plate with 3/32” rod is not recommended

Overall, it sorta works. There are about 2000 ways to adjust it and I haven’t found the sweet spot (I hope)

Two current problems:

1). It’s hard to steer accurately when you’re 6” away from wiping out a vine. Coulter doesnt completely eliminate torque steer and I’m not all that good at steering 3pt implements that go whichever way the steering wheel isn’t pointed. Have about a mile of rows to do, so not a big deal to drive forward 50 yards and back up 10 to straighten out. Must ponder

2)Chickens. We free range our flock of a couple dozen (depending on how many the coyotes have taken off). As soon as the hear a diesel motor, they figure that I’m going to turn over some worms and they mob the tractor. They will try to peck stuff of the hiller disc, run under the tractor while its moving. Must remember to lock up

It’s been a fun build, I sorta learned out how to arc weld and drill hard metal, and I have a toolbar setup to use for a contraption to unhill the vines in the spring and weed the rows in the summer. Thanks to all the folks who offered advice!

 

[dstig1]

Nice. FYI the rod you need is 7018AC (specifically says AC at the end) for use on - you guessed it - AC welders. Easy to find at farm or welding stores.

Another thought - have you tried steering with the split brakes? Seems like that might work better for this, but just a guess on my part...

 

[UncleW]

Thanks for the 7018 AC tip. Harbor Fright said their 7018 was good for AC and DCEP. But they must have been thinking of more modern AC welders with higher OCV and maybe higher frequency(?). Looks like even Home Depot has 7018 AC rod so I’ll try some. I don’t plan to keep it in a rod oven—if I’m not worried about hydrogen embrittlement, can I just keep it in a closed container and put it in a low oven for a bit before I use it?

I did try steering with the brakes this afternoon. Made a big difference, but I was kinda uncoordinated. Need to practice on an end row! Tractor has wet brakes, didnt know if they were like a motorcycle clutch (slip em all you want) or whether dragging them for a couple of miles would be a bad thing

 

[dstig1]

Everyone will tell you that unless you are doing code work, you don't need to dry 7018 in an oven. I have heard it supposedly works even better when you start warm, but I haven't stick welded in years now as I use MIG or TIG for everything I end up doing. So just keep it dry and sealed up, relatively, and you will be fine.

 

[DJ54]

Do you have a tiller..?? I'm thinking making a shallow pass may work up enough "cream" for the disc's to throw dirt easier with less resistance, yet the center coulter should still hold it pretty much in place.

When I raise potatoes I cultivate 2"-3" deep then hill them up with a 3 pt. hiller I adapted to Fast Hitch for my little Farmall 140. It makes some nice finer dirt for the discs to throw. Just a thought. I picked these hilling discs up at Tilmore, actually went to the factory/ parts warehouse to pick them up. A great family owned/operated business. I just stopped in to buy these two hilling discs and ended up getting the grand tour of the whole facility. One of the owners came in when I was cashing out and was pretty chatty. Very personable people. If you ever get the chance, stop in and see them. Heck they may even have some ideas to help you out. Your idea may give them an idea for a new attachment.

Two other things. 1. Wondering if making the stem for the straight coulter to have a limited pivot so as to allow you to steer, but not enough to kick sideways. Making it like 30º max. to 0º adjusted with bolts somehow. Again, one of those things you'd have to experiment with to find that sweet spot. 2. Another gauge wheel on the hiller disc side to keep it at a desired depth. Can't help but think with the gauge wheel just on one side, plus the straight coulter, when riding on those two, it will cause the frame to pivot on the straight coulter causing the hiller disc to bite in more with the draft pulling down from the curvature of the disc. Just something I'm pondering seeing it setting there static.

 

[jaxs]

I tip my hat to you for the whole project,you did well. Most row crop implements require "stabilizers" to prevent/minimize the exact problem you are experiencing. I've seen many tractor from the factory that don't have pins for stabilizers but the brackets and pins are radially available. There's dozens of ways but the exact system below is what 90% of experienced operators use on 50 horse and below. One or both bars can be replaced by chain but to do so requires studier mounting points on tractor because bars share load whereas one chain is always carrying 100% of side force.
It's a little late now but every inch farther back load is from tractor the worse this problem becomes. The 2" reciever is handy but will never be as good as 3 point on implement. I would use a quick hitch adapter on my tractors in a heartbeat were it not for problems created by moving implements farthar back.
I don't have 1% of experience with welding as I do with tractors but I know that 7018 is one of if not the most difficult to maintain arc so is less desirable for beginners. The ONLY reason people reccomend 7018 is that's what pipe welders in the Americas use after 6010 root so folks think it must be the very best. Truth is "something" must be speced and in Europe that "something" is often 6013 for pipeline. Gawd I miss Shield-arc ,may he rest in peace.

 

[UncleW]

Thanks for the kind words and advice. It doesnt show well in my pics, but the 2” receiver is mounted on the 3 point so the front tool bar barely clears the 3 pt arm.

Glad you brought it up—If I’m reading your thought right, I did have problems with sway side to side when I made my first run. I ended up putting a hitch stabilizer U bolt thing from HF. Also tightened up the turnbuckles on the 3 pt arms with a wrench instead of fingers like I usually do. It’s pretty solid side to side now

But I wasnt sure if you were talking about another kind of stabilizer. I’m newish to tractors

I’d like a quick hitch as well, but my 3pt will barely pick up the disc harrow as it is.

I usually do my metal work with old school oxy-acetylene. My reference book is from Linde copyright 1947. Have another one from 1921. I love watching the puddle. And I find brazing is plenty strong for 99% of stuff as long as you build up a fillet like a bicycle frame

 

[UncleW]

Do you have a tiller..?? I'm thinking making a shallow pass may work up enough "cream" for the disc's to throw dirt easier with less resistance, yet the center coulter should still hold it pretty much in place.

When I raise potatoes I cultivate 2"-3" deep then hill them up with a 3 pt. hiller I adapted to Fast Hitch for my little Farmall 140. It makes some nice finer dirt for the discs to throw. Just a thought. I picked these hilling discs up at Tilmore, actually went to the factory/ parts warehouse to pick them up. A great family owned/operated business. I just stopped in to buy these two hilling discs and ended up getting the grand tour of the whole facility. One of the owners came in when I was cashing out and was pretty chatty. Very personable people. If you ever get the chance, stop in and see them. Heck they may even have some ideas to help you out. Your idea may give them an idea for a new attachment.

Two other things. 1. Wondering if making the stem for the straight coulter to have a limited pivot so as to allow you to steer, but not enough to kick sideways. Making it like 30º max. to 0º adjusted with bolts somehow. Again, one of those things you'd have to experiment with to find that sweet spot. 2. Another gauge wheel on the hiller disc side to keep it at a desired depth. Can't help but think with the gauge wheel just on one side, plus the straight coulter, when riding on those two, it will cause the frame to pivot on the straight coulter causing the hiller disc to bite in more with the draft pulling down from the curvature of the disc. Just something I'm pondering seeing it setting there static.

Funny you should mention a tiller…
I have a 20yr old big Honda tiller. I used it in the summer to till a strip on either side of my vines so I only had to string trim 12” in the center. Was hoing to do just what you said. A pulley bearing wore out in the belt drive and Honda no longer makes the part. No NOS either. Have to machine one

I think you are right on loosening up the soil first. The soil is mostly coming up in big clods (it’s a bit too wet). I have an 1970’s vintage Burch disc harrow that I cut down to 5’ wide so it would fit down the rows. Last year, I tried reversing the discs on the rear gangs so they would throw dirt outward. The X angles of the gangs weren’t right, so I couldn’t hill well enough

The only reason I have’t put it on yet is laziness. I haven’t made any provisions for parking my hiller contraption and it will probably fall over when I take it off the 3 point and I wont be able to get it back on. But, thanks to your advice, I’ll make the effort to disc it up with the Burch. Only thing I’m worried about is losing the traction that the grass provides when I’m hilling

I’m too far away from Tilmor to visit, but I did email them. I wanted to build a cheaper version of their $4,000 vineyard finger weeder for next summer They made a quick sketch and gave me part numbers for spyder tillers and brackets, etc. Great folks

I tried your idea on steering the straight coulter. I Could move it about 10 deg by shimming the plow mount with a stack of washers. Much better. I think about how to steer if further

I appreciate the advice from somebody who know dirt way better than I do!

 

[DJ54]

Good luck..!!

 

[UncleW]

Do you have a tiller..?? I'm thinking making a shallow pass may work up enough "cream" for the disc's to throw dirt easier with less resistance, yet the center coulter should still hold it pretty much in place.

When I raise potatoes I cultivate 2"-3" deep then hill them up with a 3 pt. hiller I adapted to Fast Hitch for my little Farmall 140. It makes some nice finer dirt for the discs to throw. Just a thought. I picked these hilling discs up at Tilmore, actually went to the factory/ parts warehouse to pick them up. A great family owned/operated business. I just stopped in to buy these two hilling discs and ended up getting the grand tour of the whole facility. One of the owners came in when I was cashing out and was pretty chatty. Very personable people. If you ever get the chance, stop in and see them. Heck they may even have some ideas to help you out. Your idea may give them an idea for a new attachment.

Two other things. 1. Wondering if making the stem for the straight coulter to have a limited pivot so as to allow you to steer, but not enough to kick sideways. Making it like 30º max. to 0º adjusted with bolts somehow. Again, one of those things you'd have to experiment with to find that sweet spot. 2. Another gauge wheel on the hiller disc side to keep it at a desired depth. Can't help but think with the gauge wheel just on one side, plus the straight coulter, when riding on those two, it will cause the frame to pivot on the straight coulter causing the hiller disc to bite in more with the draft pulling down from the curvature of the disc. Just something I'm pondering seeing it setting there static.

I think you set me and my hiller straight, so to speak
I got out the ancient Burch disc.

Which took a while due to all the stuff that was abandoned in front of it. There was also an incident involving an air wrench and an NC nut on an NF u bolt

I was asking my little hiller to do the work of a big plow. I think if I run the Burch a couple times with a steep angle on the front gang and straight ahead on the rear, it will reduce the size of the clods. Then let them dry out in the sun for a day or two and Burch them again

By then it will be cream of soil and the hiller can toss it around without as much side force

I’ll update in a few days after nature has done her work

 

[DJ54]

Good deal..!! I'm interested in seeing how it does.

 

[UncleW]

Success!

Or close enough.

As you suggested, I tilled things up with the venerable Burch disc harrow & then used my contraption.

Hills are about 12-14” high. The soil never really dried out enough so I have more clods than I’d like. But I’ll have a bigger time window next winter

I’m still fiddling with the 1000 different ways to adjust the contraption. One adjustment I’m going to try is to put a tilt angle on the hiller disks. Kinda like a satellite dish pointed to the sky a bit. I saw a thing on YouTube called a “disk plough” that’s made with the disks tilted up. Seem to be used in India and Africa. Videos show it tossing dirt a couple of feet in the air which would help (I think)

It’s missing the gauge wheel cause the $13 Harbor Freight wheelbarrow one didn’t appreciate being dragged sideways when I forgot to lift the 3pt at the end of the row. Probably put a trailer axle and hub on it

Thanks so much for your advice!

 

[old and tired]

Any reason you are not hilling both sides of the vines, in one pass? Instead of just one side?

 

[UncleW]

Any reason you are not hilling both sides of the vines, in one pass? Instead of just one side?

Would be nice, particularly with balanced draft to make steering easier. But the row to row spacing isn’t consistent enough

Rows are laid out pretty straight on 8’ centers, but vines have trunks +/- 6” to either side. They have a mind of their own after a few years of pruning out old wood

Not really enough room to get the tractor through if I’d make the hills wide enough to allow for the variable width

Also, I have to take the hills down in the spring to uncover the graft union, so it’s better to have narrower hills. Gonna hafta build some contraption next spring to dehill. Thinking about a spider gang (like a Lilliston) in front of a finger weeder to work around the vines. I’ll do another build thread if I can get it to work.

There are commercial units that weed or hill both sides at once, but they use sensors to detect vines and hydraulic cylinders (or springs and parallelogram linkages,etc) to work around each vine

That could be next year’s build

 

[bmaverick]

I have about 1/2 the hardware to make mine.

BTW, I'm not the first person making a hiller out of DishTV antennas either.

Another Yanmar owner did it for his YM3810.

Potato hills for summer 2023. Since I seen the prior pixs with fencing, I thought this pix could help.

Keep adding to this thread. The more ideas and in action the better.

 

[DJ54]

Saw an update to you post, and after thinking about it, thought I remembered something that may be your perfect tool. That was until I saw you needed to uncover the graft union, shows what I know about growing grapes. Don't know that I've seen that done here in Ohio with all of the small Vinyard/wineries popping up all over here. It may very well still work for you, if you could find one. They are known as terrace makers, a pull type PTO driven type plow that slings dirt to make terraces on hillsides. They had a 3 speed transmission so as to sling dirt further. I'm thinking in first gear at low rpm's, and running just shallow enough depth to get the amount of dirt to do the deed. In this video, this one is powered by a Farmall H, which were 28hp on a good day. As if you don't have enough wheels turning inside your head on perfecting your build, I'm going to throw this at you.

Now that I see you need to uncover the vines at the graft union I'm wondering if some sort of compost would do the job for you. It would be something that would take several years to produce using an organic material such as leaves, straw, etc. to semi-break down into something usable. Not completely composted, but enough it may break down over the winter, and settle come spring and not so difficult to pull away from the vines. It could be applied with a PTO manure spreader with the beaters removed, and a slanted side chute to deposit where needed. I'm assuming the dirt needs to be pulled away from the vine union to prevent rot or freeze damage. And don't have a clue as to how long the semi-composted material would last in your climate for the protection you need. It may not even hold enough moisture if rotting that graft union is the problem. And last of all looking at the pictures I'm not seeing very many trees leaves could be harvested from. Here for most people that have a lot of trees they are a nuisance and either rake/blow their leaves up in a pile and dispose of by whatever means to keep from smothering the lawn grass. Others have lawn services blow them in piles then have a truck mounted Vac to pick them up and dispose of. There are several composting facilities around but charge a hefty price to dump.

In my case I've been mulching around set plants in the garden now for 10+ years. Keeps the weeds down plus after breaking down adds a lot of organic material to the dirt. I gather from neighbors, and in the past had a neighbor with a lawn service bring me huge amounts. Worked great until the guy's wife who has a small CSA saw what I was doing, and decided she would do that, and there went my huge leaf supply. By luck a buddy of mine was helping out a friend of his with a lawn service who provides leaf pickup. The city where they normally take them that has a composing program upped the price to $50 to dump a 1 ton truck with box. It was either cut the profit margin, raise prices, or find a less expensive place to dump. My buddy remembered I mulch with leaves, so called and asked if I wanted them. I told him "all you got." I ended up with quite a pile and hopefully enough to cover the entire approx. 1/4 acre garden.

By spring they'll still be pretty much whole. I'll put them around plants after they get 8" or so tall. Once they are down they will suppress 95% of all weeds all summer, plus holds moisture through dry spells and sure saves a lot of work. I put them down 4" - 6" thick, by the following spring they are pretty well broken down into a fine compost like material. Over the summer they provide a mat to walk on after a good rain, yet the following spring plow down very nice. Earthworms and night crawlers feed on them from underneath the entire year and leave untold amounts of worm castings. A pretty cheap source of organic matter, plus organic fertilizer.

Below is a picture of some of the leaves I've gotten this fall. There have been several more loads dumped since then. Looking at your pictures the population looks pretty sparse, but pictures can be deceiving. Not sure if this will work for you but throwing it out there as food for thought. Also added a picture from early August and how well leaves kept the weeds down. I give and donate a lot of tomatoes once I get what I want for canning and get many complements from people on how nice it is to pick in a weed free tomato patch.

 

[UncleW]

I have about 1/2 the hardware to make mine.

View attachment 839679

View attachment 839681

BTW, I'm not the first person making a hiller out of DishTV antennas either.

Another Yanmar owner did it for his YM3810.

View attachment 839682

Potato hills for summer 2023. Since I seen the prior pixs with fencing, I thought this pix could help.

View attachment 839683

Keep adding to this thread. The more ideas and in action the better.

I knew I shouldn’t have thrown those away

 

[UncleW]

Saw an update to you post, and after thinking about it, thought I remembered something that may be your perfect tool. That was until I saw you needed to uncover the graft union, shows what I know about growing grapes. Don't know that I've seen that done here in Ohio with all of the small Vinyard/wineries popping up all over here. It may very well still work for you, if you could find one. They are known as terrace makers, a pull type PTO driven type plow that slings dirt to make terraces on hillsides. They had a 3 speed transmission so as to sling dirt further. I'm thinking in first gear at low rpm's, and running just shallow enough depth to get the amount of dirt to do the deed. In this video, this one is powered by a Farmall H, which were 28hp on a good day. As if you don't have enough wheels turning inside your head on perfecting your build, I'm going to throw this at you.

Now that I see you need to uncover the vines at the graft union I'm wondering if some sort of compost would do the job for you. It would be something that would take several years to produce using an organic material such as leaves, straw, etc. to semi-break down into something usable. Not completely composted, but enough it may break down over the winter, and settle come spring and not so difficult to pull away from the vines. It could be applied with a PTO manure spreader with the beaters removed, and a slanted side chute to deposit where needed. I'm assuming the dirt needs to be pulled away from the vine union to prevent rot or freeze damage. And don't have a clue as to how long the semi-composted material would last in your climate for the protection you need. It may not even hold enough moisture if rotting that graft union is the problem. And last of all looking at the pictures I'm not seeing very many trees leaves could be harvested from. Here for most people that have a lot of trees they are a nuisance and either rake/blow their leaves up in a pile and dispose of by whatever means to keep from smothering the lawn grass. Others have lawn services blow them in piles then have a truck mounted Vac to pick them up and dispose of. There are several composting facilities around but charge a hefty price to dump.

In my case I've been mulching around set plants in the garden now for 10+ years. Keeps the weeds down plus after breaking down adds a lot of organic material to the dirt. I gather from neighbors, and in the past had a neighbor with a lawn service bring me huge amounts. Worked great until the guy's wife who has a small CSA saw what I was doing, and decided she would do that, and there went my huge leaf supply. By luck a buddy of mine was helping out a friend of his with a lawn service who provides leaf pickup. The city where they normally take them that has a composing program upped the price to $50 to dump a 1 ton truck with box. It was either cut the profit margin, raise prices, or find a less expensive place to dump. My buddy remembered I mulch with leaves, so called and asked if I wanted them. I told him "all you got." I ended up with quite a pile and hopefully enough to cover the entire approx. 1/4 acre garden.

By spring they'll still be pretty much whole. I'll put them around plants after they get 8" or so tall. Once they are down they will suppress 95% of all weeds all summer, plus holds moisture through dry spells and sure saves a lot of work. I put them down 4" - 6" thick, by the following spring they are pretty well broken down into a fine compost like material. Over the summer they provide a mat to walk on after a good rain, yet the following spring plow down very nice. Earthworms and night crawlers feed on them from underneath the entire year and leave untold amounts of worm castings. A pretty cheap source of organic matter, plus organic fertilizer.

Below is a picture of some of the leaves I've gotten this fall. There have been several more loads dumped since then. Looking at your pictures the population looks pretty sparse, but pictures can be deceiving. Not sure if this will work for you but throwing it out there as food for thought. Also added a picture from early August and how well leaves kept the weeds down. I give and donate a lot of tomatoes once I get what I want for canning and get many complements from people on how nice it is to pick in a weed free tomato patch.

I appreciate the ideas! Gotta look into the terrace machine

The idea of hilling grafted grapes it to keep the graft union warmer in the winter to prevent freeze damage. But if you leave the hills up over the summer, the top fruit bearing part of the vine (scion) will put out it’s own roots, which defeats the disease resistance of the rootstock

The local university extension is recommending exactly what you’re talking about. The county composts trees/brush/leaves and sells it as “Mesa Magic” for pretty cheap. They had graduate students as free labor and put 6” of that compost on each vine in an experimental plot. They stuck thermocouples in it and had good results in the keeping warm department. Still collecting data on root sprouting and weed pressure. Everybody around here uses herbicides for weeds, so not a big issue. We’ve had trouble with weed seeds in that compost, so we stopped using it in our garden

There are also commercial machines that break up straw bales and blast them onto the vine rows

I’ve been focused on moving dirt around cause it’s cheap and I can do it by myself off my tractor. I’m 72yo and can’t walk all that well due to severing my sciatic nerve in a freak fall accident. So really can’t shovel much compost. Unless I can convince the county extension to include me in their experiments and send over a half dozen graduate students

 

[workinonit]

I thought I had seen about everything. Satellite dishes for hillers is a new one. I mean, good grief those hillers at Ag South are just so expensive. How ya get them dishes to roll?

 

[UncleW]

I “improved” my design by angling the hiller discs 20 degrees to the sky. Expanded my metalworking skills making new disc brackets out of 6” x 3/8 bar stock. $28 Harbor Fright carbide blade for steel cut it like butter. Put in 220v outlet for my $75 Amazon inverter stick welder and ran 1/8” 7018 pretty well (by my admittedly low standards)

Tried it out in the rain and got what I expected. Tractor went sideways and discs filled up with mud. Everything is frozen now, so I may have missed my window. I’ll get started earlier next year cause I have the contraption built

I figure that tilting the disks to the sky is going to make for a couple of mud platters, so I’m pretty sure I need to put a scraper on each hiller to keep them clean. All of the commercial disc ploughs have scrapers

I saw one fellow on here welded up some disc harrow scrapers out of old lawn mower blades. Will probably bend/anneal them a bit with my torch if I go that way. Other folks have used chain around the axles of a harrow, but I don’t have an axle to loop around


Any other thoughts on making a scraper?