Geothermal related to cooling in Michigan.

[Sigarms]

My current home electric bill is closing in on $400 per month in the cooling season.

I've got to ask, what is the square footage of the home and what kind of condition is the ductwork in? I'm in NC, have 3 HVAC systems, and even in hot NC summers, my bill is about the same as yours, which I would expect in my own home given it's size. But in Michigan?

Next question is what are you paying per KW? (funny, our electric company is playing a shell game now with various "peak hours" of operation where they charge you more). My wife puts a sign on the washing machine and dryer when I can't operate them because it's "peak" time where we pay more per KW.

 

[homedad]

My home including all conditiond space is about 5200 sf. The kWh they charge is very difficult to actually measure because of their fee structure. The highest peak charge is .09 per kWh. A website states that I pay about .14 per KWh. If I divide my bill by the kWh used it’s more like .20 per kWh. I had my son looking at my bill and he concluded that my fees are about 40% of my bill. I feel like my bill will always be at least $100 per month even if I never turned on the main breaker.

 

[deezler]

My home including all conditiond space is about 5200 sf. The kWh they charge is very difficult to actually measure because of their fee structure. The highest peak charge is .09 per kWh. A website states that I pay about .14 per KWh. If I divide my bill by the kWh used it’s more like .20 per kWh. I had my son looking at my bill and he concluded that my fees are about 40% of my bill. I feel like my bill will always be at least $100 per month even if I never turned on the main breaker.

I'm sure you have Consumers for electric grid up there, right? We have DTE down in the southeast, but the billing games are similar, I believe.

The nominal grid connection fees if you consume zero kWhr is not that much, maybe $9/mo? At least for my DTE, which is how my bill looks all summer long because my 5.5kW solar array is covering all my consumption. Most of the line items on your bill are still calculated based off consumption during their respective time periods.

That's a big house... Probably not wise to cover it all with so many discrete mini split systems. Do you have funding readily available to consider a big investment in Geo?

 

[Sigarms]

That's a big house... Probably not wise to cover it all with so many discrete mini split systems. Do you have funding readily available to consider a big investment in Geo?

The issue is when you way mini split, do you mean ductless or ducted?

In the HVAC industry, these terms can get confusing since most manufacturers offer a inverter compressor HVAC system.

Another variable....

If you have a 5k sq ft house, depending on the way it was built with insulation, it could require a total of over 60,000 BTU/h of heating and cooling, OR it could require less than 24,000 BTU/h of heating and cooling.

My own home is 3,200 sqaure feet, and due to the window areas along with basement below grade, takes over 80,000 BTU/h for heating and cooling, BUT, the below grade basement and large window spaces on the 2nd and 3rd floor actually "compete" against each other for cooling and heating for the entire house (using 3 systems).

When you go with a single stage compressor HVAC system, doing gas AC, you may need 20-40K of heating with the gas furnace, but pretty much no AC, but by the time you add in ductwork, it makes no sense not to have the AC option for whatever reason.

The bigger issue people forget about with loads for larger homes is air flow meeting those heating and cooling requirements for various spaces using only 1 system.

A house that is 5k sq ft that requires 2 ton or less heating and cooling, the issue becomes meeting the air flow requirements and finding equipment with the proper blower speeds to hit those air flow requirements for the ductwork.

I also could be wrong, but I believe the OP is moving/building a smaller house.

We only have 3k sqare feet, and now that my wife and I are empty nesters, our next move/build will be definitely smaller LOL

 

[homedad]

I'm sure you have Consumers for electric grid up there, right? We have DTE down in the southeast, but the billing games are similar, I believe.

The nominal grid connection fees if you consume zero kWhr is not that much, maybe $9/mo? At least for my DTE, which is how my bill looks all summer long because my 5.5kW solar array is covering all my consumption. Most of the line items on your bill are still calculated based off consumption during their respective time periods.

That's a big house... Probably not wise to cover it all with so many discrete mini split systems. Do you have funding readily available to consider a big investment in Geo?

We're at the planning stage for the new property. The new home will most likely be around 1500 to 2000 square feet so much cheaper to cool and heat. I'm not even certain about the cost to install geothermal. After reading all of the opinions it appears that I'll just go with a traditional gas fired forced air system with either a minisplit or a window ac since I use a sound machine anyway. I had always planned to install a solar array with battery storage as well but this also sounds like a huge initial investment with minimal or no financial advantage in 30 years over grid tied electricity since the lifespan of the system is about 25 to 30 years. I also understand now that it's illegal to go completely "off-Grid" with electricity so now I'm not really certain if I can even predict what my electric bill would be. I'm assuming there's some sort of a punishment I'd have to pay for not using their electricity even though I have their wire going to my home. I guess this says more about me and my skepticism of the utilities.

 

[Sigarms]

After reading all of the opinions it appears that I'll just go with a traditional gas fired forced air system with either a minisplit or a window ac since I use a sound machine anyway

If you're on LP for the any heat, depending on what you're paying, I'd look to go a least dual fuel system (heat pump with a gas furnace for "back up heat").

Heat pump will run electric down to between 20F-40F outside air temp for heat, then bring on the gas furnace for supplementary heat when it gets colder.

If you feel fine using wood for an additional back up heat source, THAT will be your money saver IMO.

No watter what fuel source, unless you can provide it for free on your end, anyone supplying you the fuel source will sooner or later have you by the gonads.

 

[homedad]

The issue is when you way mini split, do you mean ductless or ducted?

In the HVAC industry, these terms can get confusing since most manufacturers offer a inverter compressor HVAC system.

Another variable....

If you have a 5k sq ft house, depending on the way it was built with insulation, it could require a total of over 60,000 BTU/h of heating and cooling, OR it could require less than 24,000 BTU/h of heating and cooling.

My own home is 3,200 sqaure feet, and due to the window areas along with basement below grade, takes over 80,000 BTU/h for heating and cooling, BUT, the below grade basement and large window spaces on the 2nd and 3rd floor actually "compete" against each other for cooling and heating for the entire house (using 3 systems).

When you go with a single stage compressor HVAC system, doing gas AC, you may need 20-40K of heating with the gas furnace, but pretty much no AC, but by the time you add in ductwork, it makes no sense not to have the AC option for whatever reason.

The bigger issue people forget about with loads for larger homes is air flow meeting those heating and cooling requirements for various spaces using only 1 system.

A house that is 5k sq ft that requires 2 ton or less heating and cooling, the issue becomes meeting the air flow requirements and finding equipment with the proper blower speeds to hit those air flow requirements for the ductwork.

I also could be wrong, but I believe the OP is moving/building a smaller house.

We only have 3k sqare feet, and now that my wife and I are empty nesters, our next move/build will be definitely smaller LOL

The current home is very well insulated but we also have a lot of big south facing windows which is great in the winter but we need to close big heavy curtains in the summer to keep the house cool. The AC is never turned on in the daytime and the house rarely goes above 74 degrees. It's completely about my need for comfort while sleeping. I like it cold or I can't sleep so the AC tends to run non stop all night on the upper floor bedroom zone. I think that the answer will truly be that minisplit or a window unit. I can get a window unit for $150 and it may not be as efficient as a minisplit but I'm guessing that the Minisplit is substantially more expensive upfront.

 

[Sigarms]

I'm assuming there's some sort of a punishment I'd have to pay for not using their electricity

Funny.

I was straight gas/AC on my 3 HVAC systems, decided to start changing them out to dual fuel (so I wouldn't have to use as much propane).

First year, cut my LP bill down by 30% by changing out one system.

Next year, letter from the LP company informing me that since I'm not using as much LP as in the past, my pricing per gallon is now going up.

Thought to myself I can't win...

 

[Sigarms]

The current home is very well insulated but we also have a lot of big south facing windows which is great in the winter but we need to close big heavy curtains in the summer to keep the house cool. The AC is never turned on in the daytime and the house rarely goes above 74 degrees. It's completely about my need for comfort while sleeping. I like it cold or I can't sleep so the AC tends to run non stop all night on the upper floor bedroom zone. I think that the answer will truly be that minisplit or a window unit. I can get a window unit for $150 and it may not be as efficient as a minisplit but I'm guessing that the Minisplit is substantially more expensive upfront.

If you're building a new home and it has new ductwork, and primary living space at night is a bedroom for you and your wife and the rest of the house it doesn't matter, zone the system for both the master bedroom and then the rest of the home.

Generally speaking, empty nesters, one zone HVAC system with single t-stat using LP for heat (AC or heat pump), it's a no brainer to put a ductless mini split in the master bedroom for additional heating and coolig (keep in mind, thermostat is not in the bedroom). This allows to lower heating temps in winter and raise AC temps in summer).

 

[deezler]

The current home is very well insulated but we also have a lot of big south facing windows which is great in the winter but we need to close big heavy curtains in the summer to keep the house cool. The AC is never turned on in the daytime and the house rarely goes above 74 degrees. It's completely about my need for comfort while sleeping. I like it cold or I can't sleep so the AC tends to run non stop all night on the upper floor bedroom zone. I think that the answer will truly be that minisplit or a window unit. I can get a window unit for $150 and it may not be as efficient as a minisplit but I'm guessing that the Minisplit is substantially more expensive upfront.

mini splits aren't too bad at all, and they are soooo much better than a window unit. My MrCool DIY 24k BTU system was only $2200, and cools my entire 1650 sq ft house just fine. Whisper quiet, too.