Another tractor manufacturer out of business?

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Not referring to construction equipment at all. I'm referring to the JD utility AG TRACTOR.

The Chinese have developed a battery powered bull dozer. Both battery powered snow blowers we sold last year were returned to us. Then there’s the battery powered zero turn we are doubtful of.
They say 5 hrs on a single charge.
Feel badly for the California landscapers. They’re gonna have to have power stations on their trucks with the Cali mandate for next year.

This massive Chinese electric bulldozer could wreck your world, emissions free!

Are you the kind of person that regularly has major demolition jobs that require a level of aggression and violence...

electrek.co

 

[rgr33]

I can’t help but feel that eventually, the hybrid and electric vehicles/ machines, will improve to the degree that we will all wonder why we ever used fossil fuel machines in the first place.

I liken it to my first battery powered tool, a Mikita 9.6v drill. It was ok, but not that effective for serious drilling.
compare that to the Milwaukee Fuel drills I use today, and the fact that I haven’t taken my corded drill out of the cabinet in years, and that is where I think the vehicular future is headed.

Doubters and boomers may never go willingly, and Offer up specific examples of why they don’t/won’t buy in, but just as we reach for our cordless yard tools and robotic vacuum cleaners, we will wonder how we ever got along in the old days.

 

[CliffordK]

Doesn’t sound good for Solectrac. Anyone have one of their machines?

Great clip, and well worth watching. It sounds a bit like the tractor was pushed to market too quickly by "engineers" that don't actually use tractors.

Has anyone seen this that the company is for sale??

Electric Tractor Manufacturer Solectrac Goes Up for Sale

Solectrac, a manufacturer of electric tractors based out of Santa Rosa, Calif., has been declared as “assets held for sale” by its parent company, Ideanomics.

www.agequipmentintelligence.com

willy

Yep, bumped into that when I found this thread. A lot is shown by their chart:

Obviously new companies have a lot of capital expenses, but those shouldn't show as a net loss. Nonetheless, it appears as if the more tractors they made, the more they lost. I.E. They needed to price the tractors twice as expensive, which would have taken a bite out of the market. Or, find ways to reduce the cost of batteries.

How much were the tractors new? Hmmm....

e25G Gear | Solectrac | Compact Electric Tractor

The 25 HP Category e25 is a versatile, 4WD tractor, great for hobby farms, golf courses, sports fields, equestrian centers, and municipalities.

solectrac.com

$29,249 basic tractor
$4,579 front loader
$1,499 industrial tires.

So, around $35K.

There are a few on Craigslist at the moment from about $25,000 to $32,699. I'm not seeing the larger ones on Craigslist.

It would be a fun little tractor,

The Chinese have developed a battery powered bull dozer. Both battery powered snow blowers we sold last year were returned to us. Then there’s the battery powered zero turn we are doubtful of.
They say 5 hrs on a single charge.
Feel badly for the California landscapers. They’re gonna have to have power stations on their trucks with the Cali mandate for next year.

This massive Chinese electric bulldozer could wreck your world, emissions free!

Are you the kind of person that regularly has major demolition jobs that require a level of aggression and violence...

electrek.co

SWEET!!!!

A little more expensive than my 977K, but an awful lot less expensive than a brand new CAT. I haven't had the opportunity to fill the fuel tank on the 977K yet.

The CATS are massively heavy. Perhaps replace some steel and iron with batteries.

It would depend on where those get used. Probably not the best for remote logging operations.

However, it would be good for use at a business that had a fixed yard. And, even for a commercial operation, either plan on bringing it for site prep for one day and finishing, or bringing power into a subdivision early to recharge equipment.

Anyway, if they can keep it under $100K, there will be a market. And, of course, if it comes close to the specs listed.

 

[ericm979]

Having been in a number of companies that failed, I can say that there are a lot of reasons why a company can go under besides flaws in the technology. Being undercapitalized is a common cause. Even super rich investors are cheap and want companies to succeed with minimal investment. Lack of or wrong marketing is another. Being too early to the market is another.

If Soletrac had $11M in revenue in 2022 and it was actual unit sales not funny money like licensing, they were clearly getting some traction in the market. Maybe the investors didn't realize how long it would take to become profitable. I don't know if they had any marketing at all. I never saw an ad for them. It seems like you could sell those all day to horse and dairy farms where the primary use is mucking out inside buildings and you don't want to be breathing exhaust fumes.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I can’t help but feel that eventually, the hybrid and electric vehicles/ machines, will improve to the degree that we will all wonder why we ever used fossil fuel machines in the first place.

I liken it to my first battery powered tool, a Mikita 9.6v drill. It was ok, but not that effective for serious drilling.
compare that to the Milwaukee Fuel drills I use today, and the fact that I haven’t taken my corded drill out of the cabinet in years, and that is where I think the vehicular future is headed.

Doubters and boomers may never go willingly, and Offer up specific examples of why they don’t/won’t buy in, but just as we reach for our cordless yard tools and robotic vacuum cleaners, we will wonder how we ever got along in the old days.

I have been labeled anti-EV, but I am not. What I am is anti-government-mandate EV. Ev's have a place where they work well 100% of the time, and that is city and suburb commuter and grocery getters.
My personal needs in vehicles is one car and one pickup that will do everything I ask them every time. I live in a very rural sparsely populated area. My county is the approximate size of the state of Connecticut with a population of 40K. everything is spread out. Major Medical facilities are 125 miles one way. Hay is close, but in drought years I've had to haul my hay from 200 miles away over mountain passes. No EV currently made will come close to fulfilling my needs.
However, I doubt that a day will ever come, short of the invention of "Mr. Fusion" that anything except a fossil fuel powered heavy duty farm pickup will be replaced by an EV.

 

[DarkBlack]

Great clip, and well worth watching. It sounds a bit like the tractor was pushed to market too quickly by "engineers" that don't actually use tractors.

Yep, bumped into that when I found this thread. A lot is shown by their chart:

Obviously new companies have a lot of capital expenses, but those shouldn't show as a net loss. Nonetheless, it appears as if the more tractors they made, the more they lost. I.E. They needed to price the tractors twice as expensive, which would have taken a bite out of the market. Or, find ways to reduce the cost of batteries.

How much were the tractors new? Hmmm....

e25G Gear | Solectrac | Compact Electric Tractor

The 25 HP Category e25 is a versatile, 4WD tractor, great for hobby farms, golf courses, sports fields, equestrian centers, and municipalities.

solectrac.com

$29,249 basic tractor
$4,579 front loader
$1,499 industrial tires.

So, around $35K.

There are a few on Craigslist at the moment from about $25,000 to $32,699. I'm not seeing the larger ones on Craigslist.

It would be a fun little tractor,



SWEET!!!!

A little more expensive than my 977K, but an awful lot less expensive than a brand new CAT. I haven't had the opportunity to fill the fuel tank on the 977K yet.

The CATS are massively heavy. Perhaps replace some steel and iron with batteries.

It would depend on where those get used. Probably not the best for remote logging operations.

However, it would be good for use at a business that had a fixed yard. And, even for a commercial operation, either plan on bringing it for site prep for one day and finishing, or bringing power into a subdivision early to recharge equipment.

Anyway, if they can keep it under $100K, there will be a market. And, of course, if it comes close to the specs listed.

$11 million in revenue is peanuts for a company like that. That’s just 314 tractors.
Pretty easy to imagine, fixed costs of land, building, utilities, payroll, insurance, all the components to build them etc… easily surpassing that number

 

[ptsg]

What tractors did Soletrac built? Because that e25G model they list on their website is just a rebranded Farmtrac FT25G.

Farmtrac is a brand owned by Escorts Group in India. Kubota showed interest in investing on Escorts group around 2020/2021. They even have a Kubota EK1-26 which is just a Farmtrac FT26 (diesel version). More or less at the same time, Kubota was also announcing some sort of the electric tractor.

I wonder if Soletrac going out of business is somehow related to this. Maybe Kubota refused to supply tractors for them? Just thinking out loud.

 

[WM75Guy]

Solectrac had a factory in California where they built their electric tractors. Farmtrac supplied the frame and transmission. I think Ideanomics, the parent company, bought Solectrac to cash in on the EV fad and their funding dried up. Ideanomics is headed towards bankruptcy as well.

This was from the Ideanomics earnings call on March 30, 2023.

"For some additional context here, Ideanomics has both local and federal government grant and loan applications submitted. These range from hundreds of thousands of dollars to the hundreds of millions of dollars, with the latter being something which will require a lot of focused activity to land favorably for Ideanomics. Our CFO, Stephen Johnston, will run through the financials shortly, and Robin will talk more of operations. But first, I want to share 3 examples of work we've done in 2022 to help position us to succeed as the commercial EV market begins to mature."

 

[CliffordK]

What tractors did Soletrac built? Because that e25G model they list on their website is just a rebranded Farmtrac FT25G.

I can't figure out where they're made. Solectrac seems to be a US company in California. But nothing indicates whether they make their own tractors, make licensed tractors, or are importing them mostly whole. Various government incentives might frown on importing and rebranding.

There appear to be 3 models:
e25H Hydrostatic
e25G Gear
e70N Electric Tractor

I'm not sure the advantage of a hydrostatic for an electric tractor that should naturally be continuously variable speed.

The larger e70N looks interesting, but is expensive. And, I am on a hill where I like tractors to be wide rather than narrow. I don't see any used e70N tractors, and perhaps they never made it to market.

An under powered, or too poor of speed for the PTO sounds like a major problem.

 

[CliffordK]

Solectrac had a factory in California where they built their electric tractors. Farmtrac supplied the frame and transmission. I think Ideanomics, the parent company, bought Solectrac to cash in on the EV fad and their funding dried up. Ideanomics is headed towards bankruptcy as well.

This was from the Ideanomics earnings call on March 30, 2023.

"For some additional context here, Ideanomics has both local and federal government grant and loan applications submitted. These range from hundreds of thousands of dollars to the hundreds of millions of dollars, with the latter being something which will require a lot of focused activity to land favorably for Ideanomics. Our CFO, Stephen Johnston, will run through the financials shortly, and Robin will talk more of operations. But first, I want to share 3 examples of work we've done in 2022 to help position us to succeed as the commercial EV market begins to mature."

Thanks,

So a large facility that they talked about 6 months before the company seemed to collapse.

They seem to show a large warehouse, but no specific assembly line, or subcomponent routing. Nor do they seem to be showing any production beyond basic assembly.

 

[WM75Guy]

I don't think they ever produced many tractors, most were just for farm shows and demo by Youtube tractor promoters. They were doing the Tesla model of taking $1,000 deposits based on future delivery. Here is one example of a dealer website showing a Solectrac on the lot. At that retail price point for a 25HP gear tractor, I don't think it would be very competitive. Although it may be a bargain now, just to get it off the lot.

 

[tacticalturnip]

There was a dealer not too far from here that was selling them, alongside his bread and butter LS; I can't imagine he moved many.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

I don't think they ever produced many tractors, most were just for farm shows and demo by Youtube tractor promoters. They were doing the Tesla model of taking $1,000 deposits based on future delivery. Here is one example of a dealer website showing a Solectrac on the lot. At that retail price point for a 25HP gear tractor, I don't think it would be very competitive. Although it may be a bargain now, just to get it off the lot.

View attachment 855726

At that retail price, they must have been aiming at the Tesla owner, willing to pay premium to go EV.
I can see it working for a suburban hobby farmer to clear snow off his 300 foot driveway and to mow the back 3 acres of his 5 acre parcel, but not much else. Around here, that EV tractor could so about 75% of what I need a small tractor for, but I see no need for a tractor that can't do 100% of what I need a small tractor for.

 

[ptsg]

I can't figure out where they're made. Solectrac seems to be a US company in California. But nothing indicates whether they make their own tractors, make licensed tractors, or are importing them mostly whole. Various government incentives might frown on importing and rebranding.

There appear to be 3 models:
e25H Hydrostatic
e25G Gear
e70N Electric Tractor

I'm not sure the advantage of a hydrostatic for an electric tractor that should naturally be continuously variable speed.

The larger e70N looks interesting, but is expensive. And, I am on a hill where I like tractors to be wide rather than narrow. I don't see any used e70N tractors, and perhaps they never made it to market.

An under powered, or too poor of speed for the PTO sounds like a major problem.

The E25G is for sure just a Farmtrac FT25G that they rebranded to Soletrac. Those are made in India.

Even the E70G looks like a Farmtrac 6075N base, but they ripped the diesel engine and slapped an electric motor and batteries with a crudely made hood. They even kept the mid mount ROPS and the lower link hooks in the 3 pt, which is not at all common in the US.

I doubt Soletrac did much tractor build at all. Only that crude conversion of the 6070EN.

Farmtrac 25G:

Farmtrac 6070EN:

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

All of the dollars they spend are our dollars. The inflation we have felt recently is because they just "made up" more dollars we are on the hook for. All while making the one's they let us keep, have less and less value.

It seems like the Washington philosophy this century is something akin to "We aren't increasing the debt, we still have paper, ink and printing presses."

 

[Rustyiron]

I could see a niche market. SCUT for the 1 acre suburban lot. Gets 1-4 hours of light maintenance work per week. Especially for jurisdictions that mandate noise of fuel

For a little 1ac. lot you could skip the middlemen, aka; batteries and get a 100' extension cord.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

@Rustyiron, do you remember when corded electric lawn mowers were all the rage? You could buy spindles that stuck in the ground so the extension cord didn't get dragged over your flower beds.

"For some additional context here, Ideanomics has both local and federal government grant and loan applications submitted. These range from hundreds of thousands of dollars to the hundreds of millions of dollars, with the latter being something which will require a lot of focused activity to land favorably for Ideanomics. Our CFO, Stephen Johnston, will run through the financials shortly, and Robin will talk more of operations. But first, I want to share 3 examples of work we've done in 2022 to help position us to succeed as the commercial EV market begins to mature."

Thank you for posting that, WM75Guy.

If you'll allow me to get my geek on:

Stephen Heckeroth is the founder of Solectrac and started the idea back in the 1990's. His business idea was, "Electric cars won't work for now because the lead acid batteries are way too heavy. But with tractors, extra weight is a good thing instead of a bad thing."

It was actually Ford/New Holland who first took an interest and paid him to build a Ford/New Holland electric tractor. Heckeroth engineered a system where the battery pack was easily replaceable. You would pull your Ford/New Holland up to the barn, replace your battery pack, and head out again.

Then Ford sold New Holland and the money dried up.

Ideanomics buys Selectrac in the hopes that a big grant pops up.

It doesn't

So Solectrac quietly goes out of business.

It's pretty interesting, really.

 

[Rustyiron]

@Rustyiron, do you remember when corded electric lawn mowers were all the rage? You could buy spindles that stuck in the ground so the extension cord didn't get dragged over...

I remember when people weren't swayed by trendy, unproven gadgetry and could see a scam when it came to separating them from their money. Also no one feared using a gallon of gasoline and "chicken little" the sky is falling nursery tale was just a kids story.

 

[arrow]

I remember when people weren't swayed by trendy, unproven gadgetry and could see a scam when it came to separating them from their money. Also no one feared using a gallon of gasoline and "chicken little" the sky is falling nursery tale was just a kids story.

I think Rusty it was more about an attempt to cash in on a current wave and to be one of the first in an unexplored territory.
The market simply was not ready and I have my doubts it will ever be before some new technology comes up making it obsolete.
To me, EV's are a stop gap measure and really not ready for prime time.They attempted to sell these things using fear then personal economics as motivation as if the planet will be dead in 20 years if we don't buy EV's. We saw where that went.
I recall the hand held calculator was a hundred bucks when it first came out. They sold a lot of them at that price.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've tried to compare Battery Powered Vehicles to Cordless Tools because of how good Cordless Tools have become, but it's just not the same. Cordless Tools come in a variety of abilities, with some being very good, and some that are still too junky to use if you need them to make a living. Being that they are not regulated, or forced on you by the Government, they get better in order to stay in business and make a profit.

Battery Powered Vehicles do not rely on the consumer to provide a better product. Once Government gets involved, the only goal in making a Battery Powered Vehicle is doing what the Government demands of them. Get Government out of the equation, and then they will have to provide a better product, or they will disappear.