Kraken Spray Foam?

[paulsharvey]

Anyone used the Kraken Spray foam on the metal panels of a pole barn walls/roof? I have a 16ftx24 ft pole building that has been cobbled together over the coarse of 15 years, that I tried to insulate with 1/2" rigid foam. Like about all pole buildings, there are gaps, and this one is probably worse then most, as I used a mix of new and old metal, and new/old poles and purlions, and the shed started out as a 12x16, and had been added on, about 10 years after the first part was built. I have a 12000w window unit in it, and it keeps it tolerable, but I know I'm loosing a lot of air through many gaps, and poor insulation. Dogs stay in shed at night or when we go anywhere, and without the AC, it would be 100-120 degrees in there. I dont care about getting R40 or anything, just want maybe R5 on walls, maybe R11-13 on roof and the air gaps closed. I dont want to spend $300-500 on the 'froth packs'; but a $200 Kraken Kit 'seems' like it might fit the bill. Anyone use them? Happy, unhappy, durability? Walls are only about 8 ft on the high side, like 7 ft on lower side. I would plan on removing the rigid foam before spraying, and maybe reinstall; or maybe foam ceiling and reuse rigid foam on walls?

 

[EddieWalker]

Following because I've seen them used on Youtube videos, but don't know if they are worth buying or not. I'm also interested in Tiger Foam, which is quite a bit cheaper then the Froth Pak's. Premium Spray Foam Insulation, DIY Kits, and Accessories by Tiger Foam™ - Tiger Foam Insulation

 

[paulsharvey]

Following because I've seen them used on Youtube videos, but don't know if they are worth buying or not. I'm also interested in Tiger Foam, which is quite a bit cheaper then the Froth Pak's. Premium Spray Foam Insulation, DIY Kits, and Accessories by Tiger Foam - Tiger Foam Insulation

My worries with the Froth packs are a couple things; I like the idea of doing some at a time; I don't want to drop $400-600, and find it doesn't work for my application, and lastly, what if the tanks aren't evenly filled; and you run out of part A half way through Part B.

 

[ponytug]

Well, weighing the tanks and confirming your rate of application are critical for good (complete) reaction of the chemicals in the foam. It is a recommended practice, and some of the commercial pumps have integrated flow meters to keep the mixing ratios on target. So are ensuring that the chemicals haven't gotten too cold (generally below 32F ever), or too hot in shipping.

I buy a bunch of stuff mail order, but two part foam I would be very very careful about because in the event that the install goes sideways, it would be such a pain to cut out, solvent clean the residual off, and start over. But that's me.

All the best,

Peter

 

[dstig1]

Helped a friend with one of the "froth packs" several years back (no idea which brand). They worked well, but really only cover a small area. He had a small area due to an addition he was doing where spray foam was the best way for one particular problem area but calling in a firm to do it would be too costly (if they would even do it), so it worked for him. I think he used 2 or 3 kits. The chemicals that make up polyurethane foam are costly and there is no getting around that. Have you tried pricing out a spray foam outfit to see what they would charge? They can probably tell you over the phone if you have the area of coverage and thickness desired all worked out. You would want closed cell (rigid) foam which is more costly than open cell, but open cell sucks up moisture and you live in the birthplace of mildew, so you need closed cell for sure.

 

[paulsharvey]

Helped a friend with one of the "froth packs" several years back (no idea which brand). They worked well, but really only cover a small area. He had a small area due to an addition he was doing where spray foam was the best way for one particular problem area but calling in a firm to do it would be too costly (if they would even do it), so it worked for him. I think he used 2 or 3 kits. The chemicals that make up polyurethane foam are costly and there is no getting around that. Have you tried pricing out a spray foam outfit to see what they would charge? They can probably tell you over the phone if you have the area of coverage and thickness desired all worked out. You would want closed cell (rigid) foam which is more costly than open cell, but open cell sucks up moisture and you live in the birthplace of mildew, so you need closed cell for sure.

No I haven't talked to a contractor. It's just a pole barn with a window unit, work shop and place for the dogs. I dont care enough to drop $1k; but if $200 can be used to apply a 3/4" layer, and seal up the gaps, that would be great. I think it runs approx $1/1 sq ft at 1" thickness with the Kraken foam.

Similar (maybe same company) seems to be very popular in eastern Europe(based on YouTube), and just available at their hardware stores. Not sure why the small disposable cans haven't been more available in US? It all has to be ordered online, and 1 can plus gun, plus cleaner, is only a bit cheaper then 6 or 12 cans with gun and cleaner. Would be nice to try a can and see if it works OK, before ordered a 12 pack, and finding its a waste. 12 cans, plus gun, plus cleaner is $259; 2 cans plus gun, plus cleaner is $90. Heck 6 cans, plus gun and cleaner is $185.

By their math, 16x24; at 1 inch, that would take 20 cans, for the ceiling. I'd be happy to place 10 cans at 1/2", and a R3.5, if it would apply that thin. Dang 1/2"×4×8 rigid foam is expensive, not to mention it doesn't seal worth crap. unless you Great Stuff the joints.

 

[paulsharvey]

Conventional fiber glass is hard to retro fit in a pool barn, and doesn't do much for stopping air.

 

[dstig1]

I guess my point on the foam kits was not fully explained: you aren't going to be able to control it well enough to get any kind of a thin layer over all that area. And with individual cans? no way (IMO). The foam kits at least have more of a spray nozzle that spreads it out whereas the cans are more typically for point application in cracks and joints.

There are small cans of foam like that available everywhere. And the "contractor" gun similar to that photo too (vs the disposable ones). I have one. Perhaps that particular foam and gun are more suited to this than the cans I have used, but I still highly doubt you are going to be successful with it. You could try and see before you commit, perhaps, as you suggested. I still suspect these are made to patch in small areas like repairing existing foam and will probably not get you where you want, but that is my $0.02... (and at least you would get to say "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!" )

 

[duffer]

I recently used closed cell spray foam cans (20 oz each) to insulate a Ford Transit Cargo van. They actually worked really well for my use. I bought a kit off Amazon for $275(?) that was 12 cans, gun with adjustable rotating nozzle, zoot suit, mask, goggles.

Have you thought about leaving your rigid foam in place, and just use the spray foam to spray over and around the edges to close up any areas with a void? I would think that would be better than stripping down your rigid foam. Just my 2¢.

The big difference in using the closed cell cans is there isn't much expansion at all. Maybe 2:1, 3:1 at most. Why? Because the foam in the can is already mixed with the 2 parts. The "propane tank" kit doesn't mix the chemicals until it hits the gun nozzle. Thus the higher expansion rate. These cans are filled with the foam pretty much already expanded.

 

[paulsharvey]

I have considered either taking the rigid foam down, spraying, and reinstalling. I dont know if that is better or worse then foaming cover it? My worry about going over it, that the new foam isn't bonded to the underside of the metal.

 

[dstig1]

I recently used closed cell spray foam cans (20 oz each) to insulate a Ford Transit Cargo van. They actually worked really well for my use. I bought a kit off Amazon for $275(?) that was 12 cans, gun with adjustable rotating nozzle, zoot suit, mask, goggles.



The big difference in using the closed cell cans is there isn't much expansion at all. Maybe 2:1, 3:1 at most. Why? Because the foam in the can is already mixed with the 2 parts. The "propane tank" kit doesn't mix the chemicals until it hits the gun nozzle. Thus the higher expansion rate. These cans are filled with the foam pretty much already expanded.

Single component and 2-component urethane foams are different chemistries (related but different). The foam isn't "pre expanded" in the can, it just needs exposure to air (and mainly moisture in the air, IIRC) to foam and cure.

That van looks like the kind of thing that is a small enough area for these smaller cans to be appropriate, IMO. Good to see you were able to get a decently uniform coating, so perhaps it is a possibility for the OP, but I still think it is a bit impractical there.

 

[mikester]

It's a messy job and the chemicals are bad for your lungs and overall health. I've used the two cylinder foam kits once and now say never again. I'd hire a guy with the proper equipment and let them get the job done.

 

[LouNY]

There is a product for sealing the side seams that you have on foam board. I've never used it but it seems like it would work well to seal the small gaps that you always get when trying to fit the ridgid panels of insulation together.
It's called Gapotape, it's a foam tape that seals the side seams when you try and fit foam board insulation in.
Gapogroup ltd

 

[paulsharvey]

Well, a year later, I might as well give an update. I finally bit the bullet and ordered the 2 can, 1 cleaner, and gun pack for like $87. Used the 2 cans of foam, both on awkward parts of the cieling/underside if the roof, where rigid foam either would be a pain to attach or where it had odd wires/ect. The foam went about as far as advertised maybe, I covered more square feet, but not at a full 1".

Several observations; it isn't too bad, but it is hard to get a consistent/even thickness; if you overlap previous spray, you get thick areas; if you don't, the outside edge of the "fan" is thin.

In tight areas, the cieing nozzle is good, and bad; if you turn the gun/can too vertical, it doesn't spray well; but you can get in areas that would be difficult to cut/fit/seal with rigid.

It doesn't expand as much as maybe I hoped; but I'm thinking it did help a lot on air sealing.

I haven't made up my mind on picking up 6 more cans; or getting some more rigid foam, but for the walls; it's gonna be rigid and maybe traditional spray foam on the seams.

It isn't that messy; but it's a fine overspray of foam that gets on you and everything else.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for the update. I have an area on my garage addition where the valley from the roof makes it very tight for insulation. I'm debating my options. I think spray foam will be the best choice, but I'm still not convinced it's a good DIY project.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks for the update. I have an area on my garage addition where the valley from the roof makes it very tight for insulation. I'm debating my options. I think spray foam will be the best choice, but I'm still not convinced it's a good DIY project.

Your not wrong; but the issue is for spray foam IMO; for large areas, there are cheaper options; for small areas, mobilizing a contractor is expensive. So, I'm not entirely sure where spray foam really fits. The air seal is great; but strictly R value, there are cheaper, better, options.

I think it's place is in retro-fitting insulation in structures that weren't originally built with the intent to condition, so, they have air gaps, no insulation, and irregular cavity openings.

 

[paulsharvey]

Not saying all pole structures; but most I've seen/built/worked on/in; nothing is very square, truss/purlions aren't spaced evenly, and people don't focus on a tight envelope

 

[gstrom99]

I paid a pro, to do my pole barn. Not cheap. It sounds like you're done but if someone is going to be doing it themselves (smaller area or rim parts of a house...), DuPont sells a DIY kit, with a good wide spray nozzle. Avail at all the big box stores, eBay and Amzn.

DuPont Froth-Pak™: High Performance Spray Foam Sealant and Insulation Products

www.frothpak.dupont.com

 

[LouNY]

I had a vaulted ceiling in my house spray foamed. It was a very good investment so far. Watching the roof this past winter the hot spots that used to melt the snow off fast were gone. The good thing about the closed cell foam is that it is non porous so it seals and stops all the air flow and gaps.
One thing that surprised me was the sound transmission through the closed cell foam, I can hear the rain on a shingled roof now.
If I was doing it again I'd use the closed cell foam for 2-3 inches then fill the cavity with open cell as the open cell should not transmit the noise as much.
I wouldn't hesitate to spray foam a steel roofed pole barn, around here because of the temperature swings a steel roof will condense moisture and sweat, the closed cell foam should prevent that from happening.
In an open barn that the damned birds can get in the foam would need to be covered with something to prevent nesting in it, screen or wire mesh at least.

 

[paulsharvey]

Vaulted cielings are a good use case too. You can't really do blown insulation, and bats don't always stay put over time if the vaulted part is steep.