Your last generator Maintenance Run

   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,851  
true, I've not come across an actual standard, just marketing....
  • "Clean Power" or a "Pure Sine Wave" is considered to be power with a THD or less than 6%
And like you said, the real goal is <3% THD
My previous generator THD spec was 25% the new one is <3%

Interesting read here: Generac Help Center
 
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   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,852  
any of us who come from a hi-fi background know those distortion levels are huge for
sound amplification. My APC UPS so far has not weirded out while the gen runs.
I would have thought "clean" power would be less than 1% THD.

not like THD is going to hurt a toaster. Most appliances used to be durable but now equipped with blue tooth
and other digital displays, some in color, I wonder if complexity has made them less durable.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,853  
Northern CA may again have the opportunity for generator power as a possibility for power safety shutoff even announced due to high temps combined with wind.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,854  
not like THD is going to hurt a toaster. Most appliances used to be durable but now equipped with blue tooth
and other digital displays, some in color, I wonder if complexity has made them less durable.
I come from industrial electronics design background, so my knee-jerk reaction to this is, “no”. These features work off DC, provided by simple and cheap voltage regulators, and easily cleaned up with a few capacitors. It’s terrible design, in my world, to leave a circuit vulnerable to this.

But then I have to remember consumer electronics is all about shaving pennies, or even fractions of pennies, and capacitors cost money in both direct cost and PCB real estate. Heck, even the days of extra R&D work to characterize and test the circuit against such power anomalies could be a factor. So, compromises will be made, not by accident.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,855  
I come from industrial electronics design background, so my knee-jerk reaction to this is, “no”. These features work off DC, provided by simple and cheap voltage regulators, and easily cleaned up with a few capacitors. It’s terrible design, in my world, to leave a circuit vulnerable to this.

But then I have to remember consumer electronics is all about shaving pennies, or even fractions of pennies, and capacitors cost money in both direct cost and PCB real estate. Heck, even the days of extra R&D work to characterize and test the circuit against such power anomalies could be a factor. So, compromises will be made, not by accident.
I hear you from a circuit standpoint, but so many electrical surges now, either home generated by a/c compressors or spikes in line.
power here often goes off and back on in seconds. I would love to have an oscilloscope and THD analyzer on the line when that happens.
Get hit by lightning and most electronics are poorly protected.

my nephew has a microwave oven with a push button motorized drawer. With a color screen. And wifi.
born to break.
I remember the first Amana Radarange that came into our area, friend of my parents had one.
Looked like the front end of a 56 Buick. Massive heavy chrome thing.
we've come a long way.

Of course like many of you I know what a hand wringer on a washing tub is.
Ask a Gen Z how to operate that and I bet they think it makes pizza.
But given any kind of care at all, it's still working.

it's remarkable how many advances we have made in both output and reducing size.
And for sure cost.
WinterDeere, I used to own my little town's Radio Shack. I've seen a lot of broken retail electronics.
that's where I learned
if you teach it to drink it will soon learn to smoke

industrial: how can I make it better and more MTBF
retail: how can I make it attractive yet cheap as possible to sell at a certain price point

I have seen some great electronic designs. I sold hundreds of Sony Trinitrons and only got one back, the one with the built in VCR that
someone had jammed a tape in. But those Sony tubes, bless their heavy weight, were super reliable.
I just wonder if my OLED Samsung will last as long.
Now I do admit to giving every Sony tv customer a free single outlet surge protector as part of the sale.
Always wondered if that was a big factor in reliability.

from memory, only other expensive electronics I sold that never came back for repair were the early Motorola and Panasonic
bag phones. Contractor phones for the front seat of the boss's truck. Then later early adopters for cars.
Those phones were likely built almost to milspec, they were heavy, tough and rarely broke.
They just became dinosaurs technologically and could not be upgraded further.
And there was always the customer who wanted the first Motorola hand held cell phone
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run #6,857  
my nephew has a microwave oven with a push button motorized drawer. With a color screen. And wifi.
born to break.
lol... you just reminded me of some advice I got from my very first boss. I was an EE intern, and he had dual BSEE / BSME degrees. His words were, "when a system fails, always look for the electromechanical component." Essentially, the fail rate on electronic circuits is 100x lower than the electromechanical components. Think back to your monster stereo component towers... it was always the tape decks that failed before the radio tuner! Always the speakers that failed before the amplifier, etc.

industrial: how can I make it better and more MTBF
retail: how can I make it attractive yet cheap as possible to sell at a certain price point
Yep... I think that sums it up! Once a technology becomes stable, then the sheer number of units sold make it easy to improve reliability, at very low per-unit cost. New consumer tech always pays the price, trying to straddle that cost vs. R&D investment line. Dealing with anomalous events, such as mains power spikes, becomes a game of reputational / marketing cost impact for failures vs. actual manufacturing cost.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run
  • Thread Starter
#6,858  
Thanks. This is one for the "you know you're old when..." thread, as it falls under the "stop telling yourself you're still 25 years old," category of injuries. Hard wipe-out while tubing behind a boat, probably going a little too fast for my age.

Now I have to listen to my wife remind me I'm an idiot, for the next few weeks. :D
Reminds me of a recent Leno video (JLG driving the new Morgan 3 wheeler).... he made a comment about crashing motorcycles. "I figured I had one more more good-crash in me, then I crashed my Indian (within the year +/-). Now that I'm healed up again, I figure I still have one more good crash in me....."

A shout-out to the better-halfs we have - they know we are idiots, but still choose to hang-out with us ! :cool:
Rgds, D.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run
  • Thread Starter
#6,859  
Yes, they do have a fan only setting.
Can I bother you again, for the brand-name and model if they have one ?

Couldn't make out a name in your pic, and that 411 ^ could save me a lot of time on Amazon !

Thnx, Rgds, D.
 
   / Your last generator Maintenance Run
  • Thread Starter
#6,860  
A used tractor is a possibility as long as it isn't someone else's problem. Finding a decent one for $5K would be a challenge. There is also the storage issue. It would have to live outside.

It depends on the generator and the electronics as to whether it can do harm. I'm involved with A.R.E.S. and am usually on the air during outages. I lost a $2K digital ham radio to the PTO genny I have, so I guess mine isn't good quality. I've never had an issue with Honda inverters.
I was reading your longer post above, and batteries were drifting through my mind.

Then I read this one ^, condolences on losing the radio. That may have been a line-only base, but what I settled on for mine (ARES too) was a group 31 AGM. Nowadays, LiFe is coming down in price, so even more options exist, beyond traditional FLA.

It takes space/money/time.... but one of my favourite self-built hybrid setups on here is what 90cummins runs, and continues to evolve. Like modern iGens that Coastie just snagged, the key is the design and quality of the Inverter. The industrial one 90 has (I want to say Schneider (?)), even has a support function to assist a smaller-gen start a heavier load.

Someone recently posted that re-purposed Municipal surplus generator they installed to support a commercial machine shop - there ^, you don't have much choice, but most of us, most of the time, have just relatively light loads to support @ home - when in Survival Mode.....

Rgds, D.
 

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