Share Pics of People Hauling or Towing Something Wrong

[Too many Kubotas]

On some rv forums, some think you have to have a semi to pull a big fifth wheel rv.

Even one person in this thread that will not tow with a 1/2 ton pickup because they think it shouldn’t.

Well, in real life the semi is what's being pulled by something. That 5th wheel RV is a semi trailer, too. The vast majority of trailers are.

Correct, I don't like towing with 1/2-tons, and I think the J2807 ratings are often quite bogus as they tend to concentrate on having power more so than stopping power and stability.

Just a quick look at the size of the drivetrain parts is enough to tell me if a vehicle could be suitable for towing or not. Case in point: An F-150 Ecoboost I once pulled my 16' enclosed trailer with had a rear axle about 2/3 the size, if that, of the Ram 2500 I normally used.

That little diff simply could not last as long as the 2500's if used for towing. But the crowning touch was that the F-150's little engine used more gas than the 2500's V8. Quite a bit more.

Basically, I prefer feeling a trailer as little as possible. Ideally it shouldn't affect the tow vehicle noticeably other than slow down the rate of acceleration.

Part of it might be what I've learned from several hundreds of thousand of miles of towing. Partly it's basic physics, and some of it just common sense. Besides, while I know that it's possible to tow with 1/2-tons, thankfully I don't have to.
This being America, others are free to do what they want. For better or worse.

 

[WinterDeere]

This should probably go under the "Pet Peeves" thread, but since we're talking vehicle size, it still irritates me that a Porsche 911 is beholden to the same speed limits as a 80,000 GVWR tri-axle dump truck. One thing the German's and a few other Euro countries have really done right, is to have different speed limits based on the weight of the vehicle.

Semi trucks and dump trucks are typically limited to 80 km/h (50 mph) on their expressways, where speed limits for cars are more typically between 130 km/h, or even still unlimited on about 30% of the Autobahn system. Trucks are restricted to the right two lanes on an road of 3 lanes, and are only allowed to permanently travel in the right-most lane of any road having only 2 lanes. On country roads, cars easily and safely zoom around trucks limited to lower speeds.

I drive a sports sedan, capable of nearly 200 mph, and which is just barely stretching its legs at 90 mph. When driving our unmonitored country roads, I routinely drive it 15 mph faster than the speed I'll do on the same road in my unladen pickup truck. When I'm towing with that same truck, I drop my speed yet another 5 - 10 mph, putting a 20 - 25 mph gap between my truck and the speed I can safely drive a sports car, based on stopping distances and cornering ability.

 

[WinterDeere]

Correct, I don't like towing with 1/2-tons, and I think the J2807 ratings are often quite bogus as they tend to concentrate on having power more so than stopping power and stability.

I've never dug into the actual code on this, but looking at the resulting numbers, it appears to me the ratings are typically limited by tongue weight. Put more clearly, it seems the motive and stopping power of the most-heavily-configured 1/2 ton trucks is greater than its ability to carry tongue weight. And by "most-heavily-configured", I mean those with the largest engine/trans/rear option for their class, and sold with a tow package.

The reason I say this is that, if you look right down the line of ratings, excluding those limited by low-ratio rear diffs and small engines, the tow rating is always exactly 10x the tongue weight rating of the vehicle.

This is equally bogus, because it assumes the "ideal trailer", loaded to within a pound of the minimally-acceptable 10% tongue weight. That's not a practical assumption or safety margin, for anyone placing various loads on most trailers.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

This should probably go under the "Pet Peeves" thread, but since we're talking vehicle size, it still irritates me that a Porsche 911 is beholden to the same speed limits as a 80,000 GVWR tri-axle dump truck.

I drive a sports sedan, capable of nearly 200 mph, and which is just barely stretching its legs at 90 mph.

That's how it is in California, and it's not only tractor trailers that are subject to the lower speed limits. They apply to anything towing something.

I'm guessing you're enjoying a Charger?

 

[WinterDeere]

That's how it is in California, and it's not only tractor trailers that are subject to the lower speed limits. They apply to anything towing something.

Damn... I hate to admit California is doing anything more sensible than Pennsylvania, but it appears they got us, there.

I'm guessing you're enjoying a Charger?

Yep. SRT 392 Charger is my daily driver. It gets the kids to school on-time!

Used to have faster cars, but that was BK (Before Kids).

 

[Too many Kubotas]

The reason I say this is that, if you look right down the line of ratings, excluding those limited by low-ratio rear diffs and small engines, the tow rating is always exactly 10x the tongue weight rating of the vehicle.

This is equally bogus, because it assumes the "ideal trailer", loaded to within a pound of the minimally-acceptable 10% tongue weight. That's not a practical assumption or safety margin, for anyone placing various loads on most trailers.

Looks like high tow ratings helps sales, so I fully understand why manufacturers want them as high as possible. Unfortunately, the consumer generally doesn't question those ratings.

Somebody brought up WD hitches earlier, and they are a must for the max tow ratings, also something the consumer often doesn't know or care about.

And as much as I don't care for bumper pull trailers, the ability to use WD is their saving grace. Especially the ones with active anti sway can make a big difference, and not only with 1/2-tons.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

Well, in real life the semi is what's being pulled by something. That 5th wheel RV is a semi trailer, too. The vast majority of trailers are.

Correct, I don't like towing with 1/2-tons, and I think the J2807 ratings are often quite bogus as they tend to concentrate on having power more so than stopping power and stability.

Just a quick look at the size of the drivetrain parts is enough to tell me if a vehicle could be suitable for towing or not. Case in point: An F-150 Ecoboost I once pulled my 16' enclosed trailer with had a rear axle about 2/3 the size, if that, of the Ram 2500 I normally used.

That little diff simply could not last as long as the 2500's if used for towing. But the crowning touch was that the F-150's little engine used more gas than the 2500's V8. Quite a bit more.

Basically, I prefer feeling a trailer as little as possible. Ideally it shouldn't affect the tow vehicle noticeably other than slow down the rate of acceleration.

Part of it might be what I've learned from several hundreds of thousand of miles of towing. Partly it's basic physics, and some of it just common sense. Besides, while I know that it's possible to tow with 1/2-tons, thankfully I don't have to.
This being America, others are free to do what they want. For better or worse.

In Minnesota, most people call a tractor trailer is a semi

I don’t have to tow with a 1/2 ton either, I choose to, but I also have a 1 ton duramax to tow our heavy trailer’s

 

[Too many Kubotas]

In Minnesota, most people call a tractor trailer is a semi

Oh, it's a nationwide thing.

Probably because most are only semi aware of the trailer concept in general, thinking that a trailer behind a Class 8 is a semi and their pop-up camper is not.

Even commercial drivers often claim that they drive a semi, which is odd considering that they realistically must've read the handbook to get the CDL and should know better.

 

[ning]

I'm pretty sure that most non-trucker people think that the "Semi" (seh-my) is the tractor, not the trailer, and a "semi trailer" is the combination of "the semi" (ie tractor) and the trailer

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I'm pretty sure that most non-trucker people think that the "Semi" (seh-my) is the tractor, not the trailer, and a "semi trailer" is the combination of "the semi" (ie tractor) and the trailer

Yeah, that's probably true. Unfortunately.

 

[WinterDeere]

In Minnesota, most people call a tractor trailer is a semi

I always thought the name was applicable to any trailer in which nearly 50% of the trailer weight is sitting on the tow vehicle, by historical context.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Yep, full (or pull) trailers are pretty rare, the ones that support all their weight, except for the minuscule weight of the draw bar/tongue.

If they don't have an axle, or axles, in each end they're semi trailers, but watch people being in complete denial when pointing out that their regular trailer is a semi trailer. Be it for a boat, a basic flatbed, or whatever.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yep, full (or pull) trailers are pretty rare, the ones that support all their weight, except for the minuscule weight of the draw bar/tongue.

If they don't have an axle, or axles, in each end they're semi trailers, but watch people being in complete denial when pointing out that their regular trailer is a semi trailer. Be it for a boat, a basic flatbed, or whatever.

I'm no expert, but I always assumed the distinction was the fraction of weight on the tow vehicle. With a regular boat or landscape trailer, tongue weight is only 10% - 15% of gross trailer weight. But with a semi trailer, I think tongue weight is probably something like 40% or greater.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

No, that's not quite how it works. A semi trailer puts a portion of its weight, loaded or not, on the tow vehicle. That's the whole reason its named "semi trailer".

A pull trailer supports its own weight, and load, so it doesn't need a jack on the tongue. Okay, con gears (used to convert semi trailers to pull trailers do have jacks since they're heavy).

Below are two examples of typical semi trailers.

And here is an example of two pull trailers. Unusual ones, but pull trailers nevertheless, with steering front axles.

Come to think of it, the really simple way to tell a semi trailer from a pull trailer is if it has a steerable front axle or not. If it doesn't, it's a semi trailer.

 

[Dftodd]

I've never dug into the actual code on this, but looking at the resulting numbers, it appears to me the ratings are typically limited by tongue weight. Put more clearly, it seems the motive and stopping power of the most-heavily-configured 1/2 ton trucks is greater than its ability to carry tongue weight. And by "most-heavily-configured", I mean those with the largest engine/trans/rear option for their class, and sold with a tow package.

The reason I say this is that, if you look right down the line of ratings, excluding those limited by low-ratio rear diffs and small engines, the tow rating is always exactly 10x the tongue weight rating of the vehicle.

This is equally bogus, because it assumes the "ideal trailer", loaded to within a pound of the minimally-acceptable 10% tongue weight. That's not a practical assumption or safety margin, for anyone placing various loads on most trailers.

Max weight limits on a 1/2 ton truck are also figured with a properly set up weight distribution hitch.

My Sierra 1500 is rated for 9,500lbs. But I wouldn't want to pull anything over my landscape trailer with a 7000lb gvw without a weight distribution hitch.

 

[BravoXray]

View attachment 883119

Did you see the hand at the bottom of the box, holding on to it?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Did you see the hand at the bottom of the box, holding on to it?

That's their handyman.

 

[WinterDeere]

No, that's not quite how it works. A semi trailer puts a portion of its weight, loaded or not, on the tow vehicle. That's the whole reason its named "semi trailer".

A pull trailer supports its own weight, and load, so it doesn't need a jack on the tongue. Okay, con gears (used to convert semi trailers to pull trailers do have jacks since they're heavy).

Below are two examples of typical semi trailers.

View attachment 883313


View attachment 883314

And here is an example of two pull trailers. Unusual ones, but pull trailers nevertheless, with steering front axles.View attachment 883315

Come to think of it, the really simple way to tell a semi trailer from a pull trailer is if it has a steerable front axle or not. If it doesn't, it's a semi trailer.

So, you’re saying a landscape trailer is a “semi trailer”?

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

So, you’re saying a landscape trailer is a “semi trailer”?

I think he is saying “everyone has their own opinion.” Because I think he is nuts not wanting to tow anything with a 1/2 ton truck. But that is just my opinion.

 

[dougtrr2]

So the guy hauling the box in the trunk is super safe. Either the stretch wrap or a guy in the trunk holding it, but both, that is just overkill.

Doug in SW IA