EV owners of today and tomorrow

[sd455dan]

First, good post. You make some good points. But I think you misunderstood me on this one item.

This tangent goes back to a claim that EV's are powered by power plants, and many of them burn coal or gas. Specifically:



And my point there is that only 64% of the power EV's take from the grid came from fossil fuels, whereas 100% of the power produced by ICE's comes from fossil fuels. That's not playing "fast and loose", it is accurate accounting of the inputs.


Useless tangent. You like EIA data, so we can use their number of 4% for the fraction of power on our grid coming from solar. Wasting attention on the accuracy of such a small slice of the pie really isn't going to nudge the numbers in any meaningful way.


Agreed. That's why I called it at 41.5% efficient, not 100%. Again:




That's an excellent point, if true.


Even if you drive it everyday, loss rate would be the same. You're losing 3.5 full charges per year, at that loss rate, whether you drive it or not. It'd be interesting to see how various brands compare under various conditions, but I guess the number is small enough that they have bigger items for comparison.


I think that flushes out in the net mileage, for those conditions.


Agreed. It's what makes all of this crap so contentious. Players have big investments to protect on both sides, and both have a strong interest in creating slanted views of reality.

When it comes to fossil fuel utilization though, I don't think you can make an honest and valid argument for the ICE. For me, ICE wins on cost (low mileage driver), lack of recalls, ease of maintenance, and many other fronts. That's why I still own ICE's. But I won't pretend that I'm not using a heck of a lot more fossil fuel than an EV, which is the only point to which I was responding. I just don't care that much about energy dependence in my personal vehicles.

I own and drive ICE vehicles by a margin but do think that the EV should be way more efficient in any state where the majority of utility power is produced by hydroelectric generation. Doing a general google search, what comes up is about 80-90% efficient, there is very little heat generation since it is not steam spinning up the turbine just cold water.

Not much changes with the back and forth in these discussions over the last few years,

I still really like both types.


Still feel for short town trips and anything under 300 miles the EV is great as is winter driving start up and go with a warm interior.

Deep snow or any hauling heavy (especially long distance) Give me an HD 4 x 4 diesel truck. For getting thumbs up and just a fun exhilarating ride, gas motorcycle or a 40+ year old muscle car.

Playing in the dirt an ICE powered Jeep or tractor. Oh and they still have not made a light and powerful enough electric chainsaw I would trade one of my Husky saws for.

Buy and drive what you like. The world would be really boring if everyone drove the same thing.

 

[Grumpycat]

However, I think it's also a stupid point to even debate. I don't think any EV owner is honestly worried about 1% per day charge loss, if it's really even that high. Non-issue, other than another small factor to consider when calculating total yearly fuel usage.

Lithium chemistries are very good about retaining charge for long time. Lead-acid, not so much.

If really worried about battery drain (not self-discharge) then turn the EV completely off! Yes, you can, but will have to leave the doors unlocked.

Big Tesla drain is the cabin overheat protection. Runs air conditioning to keep cabin below 100°F (or 90°, or 95°, user selectable).

 

[Grumpycat]

You mean, people who have never owned an EV arguing against EV's?

They read an article somewhere and have come here to inform us of how well informed they are and how poorly informed those who actually own and operate EVs are.

We are so stupid! We owe these people so much!

Is akin to dog owners telling cat owners what to do.

Honestly, about 6 months into Prius ownership a man approached at a gas station to tell me, "Those things don't really get the gas mileage they claim!" Was writing in my logbook at the time, recording fuel purchase, odometer, and calculating MPG. I said, "By golly you are right! Just look at this! EPA promised 60 MPG and I'm only getting 52! Never under 50 MPG the past 6 months!" He walked off not saying a thing.

 

[Grumpycat]

You lost your " engineering degree " with that statement........ wow ! But it is fun to see you spend hours typing defection and twist.

Not at all, I did very good in thermodynamics.

An ICE is a heat engine, working a low temperature against a high temperature. The low temperature is just outside of the exhaust tip. Not at the intake, not at the radiator.

 

[Grumpycat]

The ethanol in gas really does a number on small equipment if left unused in the tank for months. That's why I use non-ethanol fuel in my zero-turn and SXS. I use the canned fuel for my chainsaws. Some use fuel treatment in their generator to keep the fuel from going bad.

The problem is not the ethanol but the water ethanol will carry in suspension.

Kawasaki no longer recommends ethanol-free fuel, they now favor high volume station E10, and naturally 1.5 oz of Kawasaki's fuel stabilizer per gallon.

 

[Grumpycat]

If your buddy keeps Sentry mode on and the cabin temperature controls low, the Tesla will definitely lose more than 1% / day.
Your buddy needs to take an uber to the airport.

Yesterday I used roughly 3 kWh in 3 hours on cabin overheat protection, according to TeslaFi.com.

Would be an issue at an airport.

 

[Grumpycat]

Ya'll can argue about this stuff until you're blue in the face. Driving an EV doesn't make you an expert on them, or batteries, or the process in which they're made or disposed of. I call BS on EV's and believe it's just another thing big gov is trying to push down our throats and I want no part of it. You can keep your EV and your man purse, as I have no interest in either....

Thank you! We owe you so much for being so much smarter than those who have actual experience with EVs.

I bet when your mother told you to eat ice cream, you refused her "trying to push down our throats"! Yes, that was ice cream she was trying to give you but you'd never know for fear of liking something someone said might be good for you.

Now quit wasting your time and kick the Little Men In Government out to the unemployment office.

 

[Grumpycat]

They most certainly do use waste heat for cabin heating.

Not when it is really cold.

 

[Grumpycat]

Another ridiculous strawman argument.
Many people have a vehicle that get driven once a week. Be it they are retired or a second vehicle for their college kids.
Nobody but you, would leave a car with a full tank of gas sit for 6 months. Totally unrealistic strawman

Oh, is only an issue if an EV sits a long time. Got it!

 

[tradosaurus]

The problem is not the ethanol but the water ethanol will carry in suspension.

Kawasaki no longer recommends ethanol-free fuel, they now favor high volume station E10, and naturally 1.5 oz of Kawasaki's fuel stabilizer per gallon.

Thank Iowa and the delegate selection for ethanol in the gas. I have a Kawasaki engine on my zero turn and only put non-ethanol in it. I also run a few ounces of seafoam in each tank.