Have you ever thought about changing the central air conditioner?

[ultrarunner]

I looked up my invoice for my 5 ton Rheem install and it totaled 14,951 eleven years ago and the compressor with 10 year warranty is again shot… it also has had 2 condensers fans, circuit board, blower and expansion valve, etc.

The unit has had many service calls and with the installing dealer selling out to some investment group that also bought several other area companies the customer service sucks… no more phone call with credit card and we will take care of it…

Owner or owners representative has to be onsite with credit card… I’m not giving renter my credit card.

Something odd right now is I have a 24k bid for a new American Standard 14 SEER 5 ton with 20kW strips from basically a one man company with 2 helpers.

I also have a $11,500 bid to replace all from a local family owned union shop for similar with Carrier and also the option for a few dollars less and a 12 year warranty for Daikin.

Im going to have to make the trip north to sort it all out.

No idea what’s missing here having one bid essentially double the other.

I do know the high bid said he is concerned about access.

Mini Split seems not to be in the running as the home has a large footprint and it would require multiple heads and 2 condensing units with one on opposite sides of the home.

Im looking for something as reliable and bulletproof as possible for the western Washington climate.

The Carrier Dealer said they have better pricing because they buy by the semi trailer load and have the units in house.

Looks like it’s between Carrier, American Standard and Daikin as I want no part of another Rheem.

 

[Sigarms]

I also have a $11,500 bid to replace all from a local family owned union shop for similar with Carrier and also the option for a few dollars less and a 12 year warranty for Daikin.

What people always forget about warranties with HVAC systems is that they NEVER come with a labor plan (unless the contractor is doing a in house, 3rd party or factory and they will let you know), and it's labor that can have a tendency to shock you.

If any of the HVAC companies have a annual maintenance plan, look at them in detail. You do pay for an annual visit, but you should also receive some perks that may make it worth while.

 

[ultrarunner]

I need to hear from trades and owners what is the most dependable ducted heat pump brand...

Almost all the ratings are based on efficiency which doesn't mean much if the unit is down...

Maybe spoiled because I have central gas furnaces going back to the 1920's and they are as good as the heat exchanger.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I need to hear from trades and owners what is the most dependable ducted heat pump brand...

Almost all the ratings are based on efficiency which doesn't mean much if the unit is down...

Maybe spoiled because I have central gas furnaces going back to the 1920's and they are as good as the heat exchanger.

Can't really tell you how dependable it is yet, as its exactly 2yrs old now, but I bought the MrCool 2-3 ton Variable Speed Universal which is pretty much a rebranded Gree Flexx system.. I have heard good things about Gree. They are no Mitsubishi, but for the price and DIY install, I can replace it at least 2x if not 3x for a comparable dealer installed system.

 

[ponytug]

I need to hear from trades and owners what is the most dependable ducted heat pump brand...

Almost all the ratings are based on efficiency which doesn't mean much if the unit is down...

Maybe spoiled because I have central gas furnaces going back to the 1920's and they are as good as the heat exchanger.

Perhaps given the longevity of your 1920s units, you might be a tad...optimistic in your expectations. Some of those units were/are great for longevity, and perhaps not so great for energy efficiency, uniform heating, and air quality, but hey, they are mechanically dead simple and keep on ticking.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Sigarms]

I need to hear from trades and owners what is the most dependable ducted heat pump brand...

Almost all the ratings are based on efficiency which doesn't mean much if the unit is down...

Maybe spoiled because I have central gas furnaces going back to the 1920's and they are as good as the heat exchanger.

1 - Been doing HVAC for longer than I care to admit. There is no one brand that is the most dependable. What is the MOST important variable is the skill of those installing the HVAC ssytem. HVAC is not plug and play like a lot of other appliances. You name the brand, and I can give you a horror story where the homeowner would never install the same brand again in their life.

2 - You're wrong on why the efficiency doesn't mean much. Efficiency is based on software programs, not real world. You can install a 20 SEER2 piece of equipment in 25 year old duct work and might get 16 SEER2 out of it if you're lucky. Hard to believe, but ductwork is just as important if not more important than the equipment. I'd rather have a base SEER2 model in new duct work that was blast tested than a 16 SEER2 unit in old ductwork.

A single stage PSC gas furnace is pretty bombproof even today. Issue is, PSE motors are now outlawed by the feds. Minimum, has to have a variable speed constant torque motor, but even they are pretty much bomb proof. Go to a fully modulating gas furnace though with a proprietary communication thermostat with a multi stage cooling system, all bets are off.

The bigger issue is manufacturers have to add more electronics to help increase the efficiency of systems, which adds more parts. I'm a very stupid guy. Even I will tell you as a fact that the more electronic parts you have in a piece of equipment that rely on each other, the greater the odds that something will break because you have more parts.

The biggest question I have for you is if the contractor who proposed American Standard offered the Carrier? To be clear, exactly how much in price difference was the Carrier from the American Standard?

 

[ultrarunner]

Perhaps given the longevity of your 1920s units, you might be a tad...optimistic in your expectations. Some of those units were/are great for longevity, and perhaps not so great for energy efficiency, uniform heating, and air quality, but hey, they are mechanically dead simple and keep on ticking.

All the best,

Peter

The 1922 is a basement gravity unit… warm air rises with registers in every room.

The beauty is it work flawlessly the 7 days PGE was out after the 89 earthquake and the heat is totally silent with no dust blower stirring things up.

I loved that furnace and every renter has commented positively…

No issues with the gas bill but it’s basically a gas grate with very large insulated ducts to distribute the warmth.

Still have lots of floor furnaces and a few wall furnaces.

All the above millivolt with Mercury stats.

The only units units needing parts are forced air such as blowers or gas control valves.

The super efficient 2013 Rheem has cost me thousands in the last 10 years in addition to the 15k install and because it is rented none of the incentives or tax breaks came my way.

 

[ultrarunner]

1 - Been doing HVAC for longer than I care to admit. There is no one brand that is the most dependable. What is the MOST important variable is the skill of those installing the HVAC ssytem. HVAC is not plug and play like a lot of other appliances. You name the brand, and I can give you a horror story where the homeowner would never install the same brand again in their life.

2 - You're wrong on why the efficiency doesn't mean much. Efficiency is based on software programs, not real world. You can install a 20 SEER2 piece of equipment in 25 year old duct work and might get 16 SEER2 out of it if you're lucky. Hard to believe, but ductwork is just as important if not more important than the equipment. I'd rather have a base SEER2 model in new duct work that was blast tested than a 16 SEER2 unit in old ductwork.

A single stage PSC gas furnace is pretty bombproof even today. Issue is, PSE motors are now outlawed by the feds. Minimum, has to have a variable speed constant torque motor, but even they are pretty much bomb proof. Go to a fully modulating gas furnace though with a proprietary communication thermostat with a multi stage cooling system, all bets are off.

The bigger issue is manufacturers have to add more electronics to help increase the efficiency of systems, which adds more parts. I'm a very stupid guy. Even I will tell you as a fact that the more electronic parts you have in a piece of equipment that rely on each other, the greater the odds that something will break because you have more parts.

The biggest question I have for you is if the contractor who proposed American Standard offered the Carrier? To be clear, exactly how much in price difference was the Carrier from the American Standard?

The $11,500 Carrier quote is from a large since 1976 established family owned union shop.

They are factory service for Carrier, Daiken and Mitsubishi.

The American Standard is from a small 2 truck company and quoted 24k

The twist is the American Standard contractor served his apprenticeship with the Carrier guy at the Carrier Dealer and also sells Rheem but most all now is American Standard because no one likes call backs.

The Carrier guy and the American Standard guy went to high school together in the 80’s

The Carrier guy had nothing bad to say about the American Standard guy other than it’s a one man shop with a helper…

I still have no idea why with the same energy rating American Standard is double Carrier?

I guess I could opt not do anything and just rely on the Rheem strip heaters and forget Heat Pump cooling.

 

[jkk04]

Out of curiosity, how many indoor ductless heads do you have vs how many outdoor units?
FYI, NEVER place the condensing unit directly under the master bedroom window, even with a mini split Even with a mini split, if you have a short line set run to the indoor head generally over the bed (generally 10' or less), it is possible sometimes to hear the refrigerant moving in the line set.

As Kenmac mentioned, newer condensing units are generally very quiet now in comparison to 10-15 year old models.

Had a issue with my dryer. First up, the thermistor. Nope, that's not it, then went to look for a relay board. What do you know, it appears that relay board is no longer made for that dryer. Thought to myself, well, I think it's about 10 years old, so I guess that might be right. Looked for the invoice, the dryer is only 6 years old! The $650 new dryer was delivered last night. I just know that if I couldn't get a part for my 12 year old HVAC system, I would be pissed, let alone 6 years old. What I can tell you from years of experience working in the HVAC trade, if there is ever a OEM proprietary part that you run the risk of not finding in the US, it's with a ductless mini split system.

I have speculated and considered the efficiency, longevity of the mini split unit before installing it and fully understood it could be hard to find parts if the unit gets into trouble.

As I ment on video, I only paid less than $800 for the seer rating 21 unit and if the last was less than 10 year or even 5 years without any hassles I would be satisfied because I can replace it with brand new easily. It is still affordable instead of spending more than $11,000 for Heat pump plus maintenance headaches.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The $11,500 Carrier quote is from a large since 1976 established family owned union shop.

They are factory service for Carrier, Daiken and Mitsubishi.

The American Standard is from a small 2 truck company and quoted 24k

The twist is the American Standard contractor served his apprenticeship with the Carrier guy at the Carrier Dealer and also sells Rheem but most all now is American Standard because no one likes call backs.

The Carrier guy and the American Standard guy went to high school together in the 80’s

The Carrier guy had nothing bad to say about the American Standard guy other than it’s a one man shop with a helper…

I still have no idea why with the same energy rating American Standard is double Carrier?

I guess I could opt not do anything and just rely on the Rheem strip heaters and forget Heat Pump cooling.

Pretty sure the American Standard guy just didn't want to do the job..