New 2025 Ram 1500 with hurricane engine.

[Hay Dude]

The Americans I know, myself included, view it this way: It's going to eventually break or need service, so design it in a way that makes it easy to repair or service.

We have another term for this. We call it "common sense". My problem with EVERYTHING European that's been in my driveway over the last 20 years is that it was designed the exact opposite of this. Working on a BMW car once...needed a starter...the entire upper intake manifold had to come off because the starter was in the valley of the engine. What idiot decided that would be a good idea? The current 2.0L turbo engines in Jeeps...a timing job is a 20 hour labor job on a 4 cylinder engine?? The current 3.0L turbo engines in Ram trucks and Jeeps is the same way. The packaging is an absolute nightmare, and the parts are not designed to last. The engineering in general that I see just makes no sense to me at all. It's as if they expect you to throw it away and buy another one first time something fails. They don't even use oil dipsticks anymore, so now you can't physically look at the condition/level of the vital engine oil. It's just maddening. What about the "EcoDiesel" engines in Ram trucks and Jeeps? Those are straight out of Italy and they're complete garbage. It's rare to see one with 150k miles on it.

My wife bought a new MINI Cooper in 2011. Had engine work done under warranty in the first 12 months of ownership. She ended up trading it for a 2012 the following year because she got tired of shifting gears. The 2012 also had engine work done in the first year. Twelve years passed and last year she bought a brand new 2024 MINI Cooper. Guess what? We just took it to the dealership for an engine related recall last month with only 16,000 miles on the clock.

I don't say this to be "racist" at all, it's just a fact to me that Europeans couldn't design a paper bag correctly and that's why I will not touch a Ram/Jeep/Dodge product built recently. Stellantis is putting too much of a Euro touch on these new vehicles, the reliability is going down the tube, and their sales are falling off a cliff. They are consistently showing the largest sales decreases of any domestic auto maker.

Well, I happen to think Fiat/ Stellantis did some good things, too.
1. They left the Cummins under the hood.
2. The trucks are much nicer to operate on a daily basis.

I haven’t really had too many “reliability issues” and I’ll put my trucks use up against anyone else. Bring it on

Then again, I am only at 4 years and 62,000miles, so I know “the worst is yet to come”.

But so far, 1 front axle hub, 1 DEF tank sensor and the CP-4 pump. All under warranty.
It’s made me lots of money.
Truck pulls like unimaginably well, but I may extend the warranty. Upcoming repairs are going to get expensive as she ages. Or Thinking about buying a new one, just to get the ZF-8 and a few other things I always wanted.

 

[WinterDeere]

...it's just a fact to me that Europeans couldn't design a paper bag correctly and that's why I will not touch a Ram/Jeep/Dodge product built recently.

The problem here, is that your definition of "correctly" is based on only one criteria, that the initial buyer really couldn't care less about. Ease of repair surely is the definition of "correctly", for the guy buying older cars that will need repair. But manufacturers are not designing for that guy.

The definition of "correctly", for those buying new high-dollar cars, is probably based more on performance than anything thing else. If you can shave some pounds, add some horsepower, or lower the COG, that's "correctly", for the crowd toward which the manufacturers are designing.

Stellantis is putting too much of a Euro touch on these new vehicles, the reliability is going down the tube, and their sales are falling off a cliff. They are consistently showing the largest sales decreases of any domestic auto maker.

It's funny... I would have never even considered buying any Dodge or Chrysler product, in the 20+ years before Daimler Dodge. Dodge had an absolutely abhorrent quality record, and other than their pickups being sort of sexy for the time, I didn't see any daily driver cars in their lineup that I would want to drive. But once Daimler took over, their vehicles gradually became much more appealing, with better styling, handling, quality, etc. I've owned 4 Dodge products since then.

Fiat continued that, but where they and Stellant seem to have failed, is planning for new emissions laws forcing the demise of big V8's in passenger cars.

But I will admit I also like European cars. I'm buying new, generally selling around 10-12 years and before 100,000 miles, so ease of repair is not my top concern. Performance trumps nearly every other factor, in my buying decision, although I'm also not immune to a little *** appeal.

 

[paulsharvey]

Ok, come on, none of the makers are turning out Complete Garbage, it's not just European (or Japanese or American or whatever) engineers working on a project as large as a 1/2t pick-up. None of them are completely "throw away" either. But there Is a real issue of "simple" or routine maintenance items becoming Much more expensive. Stuff like a water pump is not ment to last the life of a vehicle, and it's not uncommon to replace at 60-100,000 miles; and there Is a trend of that being closer and closer to a $1200 repair if you go to the dealer.

If the new 3.0 TT Hurricane proves it's self, great, but there will still be old farts saying "dodge should have just kept the 318 and 360", forgetting the faults with those. If it turns out to be a dog, dodge is going to be hurting. If the most likely outcome, there are some problems, some growing pains, but a generally decent engine, with good specs, but added expense of purchase/maintenance; it's not really going to be a big deal, all of the manufacturers are in a similar boat.

Now, I dont see the 5% increase in HP and like 8% in torque being worth the change to the Hurricane, and the added expense, But the 5.7L was getting long in the tooth. Would I have rathered something like a medium displacement, 4.2 single turbo, straight 6 option, and a incremental change to something based on the Hemi, sure, but I'm not an engine designer, I don't know the money figures, and I don't know the manufacturing efficiencies. This Hurricane might be a fantastic base block/system, that can be set up for everything from a light sporty car, to a downgraded, simple version for basic passenger vehicles, and with different bolt ons for multiple country sales.

Hopefully our OP's new truck serves him well.

 

[WinterDeere]

I dont see the 5% increase in HP and like 8% in torque being worth the change to the Hurricane, and the added expense, But the 5.7L was getting long in the tooth.

If you're talking about upgrading my personal truck today, then agreed. But as a fleet decision, they've upped the HP by more than 5% while simultaneously lowering fuel consumption 5%. It might have been just that final small nudge required to meet their fleet targets for mileage.

 

[paulsharvey]

If you're talking about upgrading my personal truck today, then agreed. But as a fleet decision, they've upped the HP by more than 5% while simultaneously lowering fuel consumption 5%. It might have been just that final small nudge required to meet their fleet targets for mileage.

100% true. I know the company I work for has been trying to simplify their fleet, and also all this "green" stuff, but.

A couple weeks ago, we had to do in-class and in vehicle defensive driving program, and although annoying, I liked the cooperate lady basically said "accidents are expensive and all of this vehicle idle time cuts into our profit margin" instead of the official email that was talking about pounds of carbon per hour of idle.

Also, fleet, rental, and government customers are a very large ammount of truck sales. Don't know the total real %, but I would guess 1/3rd of all light truck sales are cooperate fleets, rental fleets, or government customers? And those groups all do care about the 5% fuel savings.

 

[coobie]

I have 430 miles on the truck so far avg MPG are 19.2 city highway verses my hemi 5.7 at 14.3 mpg.Happy so far with the mileage aspect side of things.

 

[ruffdog]

I have 430 miles on the truck so far avg MPG are 19.2 city highway verses my hemi 5.7 at 14.3 mpg.Happy so far with the mileage aspect side of things.

Keep us updated on your experience with the truck/engine.

 

[Hay Dude]

I have 430 miles on the truck so far avg MPG are 19.2 city highway verses my hemi 5.7 at 14.3 mpg.Happy so far with the mileage aspect side of things.

That’s going to improve after break in.
Turbos are so much better than just more fuel as a strategy for more power.

 

[coobie]

Keep us updated on your experience with the truck/engine.

Will do.Like anything else with newer technology time will tell.

 

[Dftodd]

Not Ram, or trucks, but I just saw a video with someone bragging about 0% down, and $580 for 287 months fiancing on a Mecedes C class. That's 24 years... and $166k.

Dude definitely wasn't a math wizard

Wife and I stopped her step mother from doing similar.

She was fixing to take out a 20yr note on a small RV and was looking at a similar payment.

 

[lincmercguy]

Isn't this the first year for them? I never buy a new engine or platform redesign the first year on market

 

[WinterDeere]

Isn't this the first year for them? I never buy a new engine or platform redesign the first year on market

I don't think it is. There have been a few prior posts in this thread, describing this engine has been used in Jeeps for at least two years prior. So, it sounds like this is probably the third year for this engine.

 

[ruffdog]

Stellantis' CEO resigns.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/01/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-resigns.html

 

[coobie]

Stellantis' CEO resigns.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/01/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-resigns.html

What does this post have to do with 2025 Ram 1500 just curious?

 

[Blue Mule]

What does this post have to do with 2025 Ram 1500 just curious?

Short version: The CEO is to blame for the disaster that the 2025 Ram 1500 is.

Longer version: I think the connection here is that Ram/Dodge/Jeep quality and engineering and even their planned path forward was all dictated by Stellantis and their CEO. The reason these brands have fallen completely off a cliff in sales has a LOT to do with the removal of the tried and true V8 engines, and replacing them with the unreliable "Hurricane" engine family. Now things are so incredibly bad for the company that big changes are rumored to be coming and the CEO being gone means there's a green light for positive change. There are even strong and somewhat credible rumors out there now that a new DOHC V8 "Hemi" engine may be in the works to try and save the brands before they fail.

 

[coobie]

Short version: The CEO is to blame for the disaster that the 2025 Ram 1500 is.

Longer version: I think the connection here is that Ram/Dodge/Jeep quality and engineering and even their planned path forward was all dictated by Stellantis and their CEO. The reason these brands have fallen completely off a cliff in sales has a LOT to do with the removal of the tried and true V8 engines, and replacing them with the unreliable "Hurricane" engine family. Now things are so incredibly bad for the company that big changes are rumored to be coming and the CEO being gone means there's a green light for positive change. There are even strong and somewhat credible rumors out there now that a new DOHC V8 "Hemi" engine may be in the works to try and save the brands before they fail.

Now that's funny disaster ..Maybe USA will bail out Ford and GM again how's that for disaster ? LMAO.. PS see a chit ton of jeeps still on the road can't say they have fallen off any cliff.

 

[ruffdog]

In the US, it is a disaster. When sales are down 42%, way more than other makers, something has to be done. My cousin bought a Ram 3500 because the price was right (below cost), but that doesn't help the companies bottom line if that is how they sell vehicles.

"In North America its revenues collapsed by 42 percent to $13.47 billion because of a fall in sales and price cuts to clear its stock of vehicles."

Sales Slump 27% At Carmaker Stellantis

 

[WinterDeere]

I'm a big fan of the SRT products from Dodge, IMO some of the best vehicles on the road in the last 10 years, and most definitely the best at their price point. I've owned a few, and in fact still have one 6.4L SRT 392 Charger, which is just sublimely fun to drive.

But I've been watching them running full-bore down a dead-end road, with these high-displacement engines the last ten years, and wondering why they don't seem to be planning at all for the emissions requirements that will inevitably dictate their demise.

So, the SRT Charger and Challenger had their 2023 models, but then... nothing. They eventually started development of an EV Hellcat, way too late to coincide with the demise of the ICE version, and they've really done nothing to replace their other "hot" sedans and SUV's. Not being one who even pays much attention to the auto industry news, this just stinks of bad planning, five-plus years ago.

I'm really not sure how they're going to survive, as I can't imagine any reason anyone would ever want to buy a small-displacement Dodge vehicle. Even if less terrible than one would assume, they haven't done much with their marketing to convince anyone other than those who just blindly follow a label, that they're even in the game. Put otherwise, if I'm stuck driving sedan with a tiny 4-cylinder turbo engine, it'll probably say Audi or BMW on the trunk lid, not Dodge.

 

[orezok]

That’s going to improve after break in.
Turbos are so much better than just more fuel as a strategy for more power.

But adding a turbo requires more fuel (at higher output). Isn’t your statement skewed.

 

[WinterDeere]

But adding a turbo requires more fuel (at higher output). Isn’t your statement skewed.

Okay, yes... his statement has a flaw, if you let the grammar police have at it. But I think we can assume he's talking about the old displacement versus turbo debate, and the cold hard fact that, over the full range of driving requirements, a turbo on a smaller displacement can achieve similar peak horsepower with less average fuel usage.