deere 110 tlb overheating

[rScotty]

Thanks for the replies. the head went to a machine shop and our mechanic checked the block and put a straight edge on it.the overflow tank is a bit of an odd factory set up there is a tee right after the thermostat housing with a line to the overflow/fill tank and then to upper radiator hose. not easy to see flow. tested the thermostat and cap. my pressure tester is pretty cheap but the system held 14lbs for 20 seconds which is what the tech manual says. I have an ir thermometer and its confusing. when overheating temp gauge goes into red and overflow tank is bubbling hot but most of the block reads less than 180.except by the freeze plugs and I get 220 and higher but that's also just below the exhaust manifold.from this point it will keep pushing coolant out. Radiator and hoses are warm but not hot hot. Just shut it down and thermistat housing is 200 upper hose reads about 160 but can hold it by hand.lower hose pretty cool. I did use a exhaust gas in coolant test and it is negative. any ideas Im willing to try. thanks again richard

Well, I don't know the cause of your overheating. Was the head gasket leaking or not?

But I chased "overheating warning" on our 2006 JD 310 for months before finding the cause and in the process of trying to dianose it myself found out a number of things.

One thing I found is that the IR thermometer guns don't measure temperature, they measure changes in infra-red radiation - called emissivity. Just like temperature, emissivity changes with the material doing the emitting. Paint is different than plated metal, and rubber is very different from any type of metal.

So although IR emissivity is related to temperture - unless your IR gun has an adjustment for emissivity, and you have the ability to zero that adjustment ....then you can only really tell if one thing is hotter than another.
Without compensating for emssivity for every different surface, no IR gun can measure absolute temperture. You need to be measuring the water temperature, not some other temperature.

Apparently we can't expect an IR gun to switch from the metal head to a rubber hose without rezeroing the emissivity against a known source. Doing that is a process, and there are IR guns that can do that, they are more expensive.

I also found out that our JD 310 has an "always open" bypass loop down by the water pump. So even if the thermostat was not opening at all, the bypass loop provides enough cooling for idling or light work. That makes finding the cause of everheating by trying to measure external temperatures even more difficult.

rScotty

 

[coqui]

Head gasket had a small break. tried to make most of the ir readings on solid block metal.going to redo trouble shooting tests. machine can run for a couple hours sometimes light duty before overheating. tractor filler tank originaly just had a fill hose teed to the radiator hose and a overflow above the 14psi cap to the ground .I added an overflow tank and plan to keep track of coolant. to be sure none or very little is disappearing. after overheating overflow bottle temp with a thermometer was boiling.

 

[coqui]

A new water pump but is it working? Sometimes new means rebuilt also.

new pump from deere

 

[rScotty]

Head gasket had a small break. tried to make most of the ir readings on solid block metal.going to redo trouble shooting tests. machine can run for a couple hours sometimes light duty before overheating.

That makes sense. It sounds like yours is probably cooling via the bypass loop. As near as I can tell, the bypass cooling loop on Deere TLBs is there to prevent sudden overheating if the thermostat fails, and also to prevent surging of coolants having different temperatures. You could just take the thermostat out to see if the problem continues.

tractor filler tank originaly just had a fill hose teed to the radiator hose and a overflow above the 14psi cap to the ground .I added an overflow tank and plan to keep track of coolant. to be sure none or very little is disappearing. after overheating overflow bottle temp with a thermometer was boiling.

That sounds like the correct location for an overflow bottle Tee line. The overflow bottle is not about overheating, it's function is to keep coolant level constant.

There are actually two systems that connect into the air space above the level of the coolant in the radiator. One system maintains coolant level and the other is a relief valve in the radiator cap to prevent steam pressure from causing a steam explosion. Some systems tried to combine both into a single system and that didn't work so well. But if you understand what it was supposed to do it may help figure things out.

What matters to the overflow bottle is the height of the Tee in the radiator hose. JD put that fill hose feed where they did so it would be at whatever level they wanted to maintan as a constant level of coolant in the radiator. They did that because the coolant storage bottle and Tee allows the coolant level to respond to volume changes in the cooling system due to temperature. Coolant is either forced into the coolant storage bottle if the level in the radiator is too high, or it is sucked out of the storage bottle by the vacuum formed if the level in the radiator is too low.

For the overflow system to work properly, the radiator cap has to seal tightly enough to hold a vacuum as well as a pressure. Best to use a new OEM one. Also, the hose from the Tee over to the coolant storage bottle has to be nice and tight without any near invisible internal age splits - if in doubt, just replace that hose. And the hose itself has to be long enough to go to the bottom of the coolant storage bottle. The bottle itself needs to be at the original mounting height relative to the radiator to allow it to work right. Usually the Max line on the bottle is a few inches below the normal coolant level in the radiator. Then the coolant storage bottle should be primed with enough coolant to cover an inch or so above the bottom end of the hose.

The other system in the upper air space within the radiator is a steam relief system that ports out through a hose that goes to the open air....or down to the ground. That system is your safety against a steam explosion. It is usually ported in the neck of the radiator and is activated when steam lifts the bottom seal on the radiator cap against that spring in the cap. When overheating is so severe that it steam is generated, raising the internal seal on the radiator cap allows steam to escape to prevent an explosion. This happens with a sound that will definitely get your attention. That rarely happens, but when it does, the steam has to be allowed to escape freely.

There are a few variations on the system I've just described. Some designers try to combine both functions. You can identify some of those because they also have a pressure cap on the coolant storage bottle.

My hope is that knowing what each system does is helps you with your JD 110. Use it gently, they are nice machines. I wish JD had kept them in the lineup and given them some more development.
rScotty

 

[coqui]

Thanks for explaining the 110tlb possible variations. on ours the radiator itself has no pressure cap. The storage filler tank is steel and mounted factory well above the radiator and has a 14lb. pressure cap. I added a plastic expansion tank to try and keep track of the overflow when overheating.engine starts instantly,runs smoothly, has a small puff of white smoke when stating or a little smoke after idling for a while. The shop manual diagram shows a plastic tank but on our year/model not there. I will replace the hose from the tee to the tank bottom just to be sure.I tested the cap and temp gauge shows thermistat is opening and closing. when shut down the cap is holding pressure.I tested the antifreeze and the hydrometer says good mix.I fixed my coolant pressure tester so I will run that again and see if the system is holding 14psi. the shop manual says
Cooling System Pressure
after 15 Seconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97 kPa (14 psi) not sure if it means if drops after 15 secs. it's ok?
the machine has been a pleasure to use until now. we bought it new. thanks again richard

 

[Williy]

Have you tried putting the thermostat in a pan of water and putting it on the stove and checking to see if the stat opens
to the temp of approx 200 degrees F

Are all the hoses new?

willy

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for explaining the 110tlb possible variations. on ours the radiator itself has no pressure cap. The storage filler tank is steel and mounted factory well above the radiator and has a 14lb. pressure cap. I added a plastic expansion tank to try and keep track of the overflow when overheating.engine starts instantly,runs smoothly, has a small puff of white smoke when stating or a little smoke after idling for a while. The shop manual diagram shows a plastic tank but on our year/model not there. I will replace the hose from the tee to the tank bottom just to be sure.I tested the cap and temp gauge shows thermistat is opening and closing. when shut down the cap is holding pressure.I tested the antifreeze and the hydrometer says good mix.I fixed my coolant pressure tester so I will run that again and see if the system is holding 14psi. the shop manual says
Cooling System Pressure
after 15 Seconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97 kPa (14 psi) not sure if it means if drops after 15 secs. it's ok?
the machine has been a pleasure to use until now. we bought it new. thanks again richard

Well, it sure sounds like yours is one in which they tried to combine both functions. Having the pressure cap on the coolant storage/filler tank is diagnostic. Combining the functions wasn't real popular because the system can lose coolant over time without your being aware of it happening.

Not being aware of coolant being lost can lead to an head gasket or warped head - as you found out. If it were mine, and I was satified that the head was milled flat to take out the warp..... along with a good new head gasket and no other problems - then I would just make sure that the joints and all hoses on your coolant system are all as near new as possible, and then resolve check it often.

After all, your system apparently worked fine for years since new. So we know it is capable of cooling properly if everything is like new. If you added that plastic tank like i think you did, it won't hurt and might even help.

As to your question about why does the shop manual descibe a test that holds max operating pressure of 14 psi for only 15 seconds..... My guess is they are saying if it holds that pressure for 15 seconds without leaks or pressure drops then that is long enough to call it good. I would agree with that when testing a new system with all metal connections and connecting tubing with new hoses. But when there are older rubber hoses involved, I'm afraid their shop manual is overlooking what happens with old rubber hoses. A simple short term pressure test won't always show small leaks in old rubber hoses.

The answer seems not to be any one thing. At this point I'd say replace all the coolant system hoses and connections with new. Add some real temperature gauges where you can, and check the coolant fluid level religiously..... which reminds me that I should do the same. I haven't been checking mine nearly often enough.
thanks for the reminder,
rScotty

 

[dadohead]

It feels like it may simply have an airlock. If air is trapped in the head passages, cooling is greatly hindered and it will bubble at the bottle. Some engines are tougher than others to purge air out while filling the coolant system.

The solution is to idle the machine with the radiator cap off, keeping coolant topped off. As the system warms you'll see 'gurgling' and an occasional 'belch' as it expels air. Each time the coolant falls top it off. Once warm and the belching stops, reinstall the cap. Run normally and see if overheating stops. IDK... could be a simple fix.

 

[dodge man]

I used to think the “airlock” was an urban legend. I’ve changed antifreeze on cars, trucks and tractors and never had a problem. I helped a friend fix a coolant leak in his car. He took a short drive afterwards and it overheated. We eventually got the air out and it’s been fine since.

 

[dadohead]

You've never had an issue because you know how to correctly refill the system. My adult kids didn't know until they were shown.

I could be way off-base but the OP's machine sure is acting like an airlock. The temp sensor is in the head. If air pockets are present, no heat exchanging is occurring at those areas. The sensor gets hot quick while those areas seeing coolant are not.

The initial issues that caused the teardown are probably fixed with all the new parts.... now just make sure you purge the air out and let's see how she does. Hope this helps!