Oxy/acet tank ownership transfer

[ultrarunner]

I returned rental tanks from vacant properties and was offered free one year rental waiver for bringing in… I declined as I have my own tanks and a fill lasts me about 10 years now.

The service manager’s goal was simply to get the tanks back into the revenue stream…

Tanks can last seemingly forever as I still run into full size 80-90 years old…

 

[sandman2234]

There are owner tanks and rental tanks.

The rental tanks I've seen are about 4 feet tall, and the oxygen tanks usually have an embossed collar with the name of the welding supplier.

The owner tanks can be any size, and have a plain collar.
If it looks like a rental, I won't touch it.

The fact that it has the name embossed on the neck ring doesn't mean it is owned by the gas supplier. There are prefix letters and numbers on the tanks serial number that denote if it is a customer owned bottle in sizes that are both company and customer owned. Some sizes are always company owned and some are only customer owned. Some sizes are very close to each other (110 and 125 cubic feet) and often get mistaken for each other. Most of the time anything 100 cubic feet or smaller is customer owned.
David from jax

 

[5030]

Not all of us have a "compressor plant" within reasonable range..... That is why we exchange....

Most any LWS will receive your bottles and have them filled for you at a local to them compressor station, if you bother to ask that is. Other than dissolved acetylene, don't like exchanging bottles simply because exchange bottle will be beat up and I like pristine bottles that aren't scratched or flogged on.

Why I do what I do and all my bottles have our company name painted in them.

Of course one has to understand that retaining and refilling your owned bottles has a lead time involved. Why I own multiple bottles. When I need a bottle refilled, it's not inconvenient for me at all to drop them off and wait a week or so for them to be refilled. In fact, most times I'm dropping off multiple bottles to be refilled. Of course that entails owning multiple bottles which I do. Again, only exception is dissolved acetylene and that one gets exchanged.

 

[5030]

I returned rental tanks from vacant properties and was offered free one year rental waiver for bringing in… I declined as I have my own tanks and a fill lasts me about 10 years now.

The service manager’s goal was simply to get the tanks back into the revenue stream

Tanks can last seemingly forever as I still run into full size 80-90 years old…

So long as any bottle passes a hydro test, age means nothing when it comes to viability.

 

[5030]

Suppose you do your own tank test too?

NO and I have issue if they require a hydro test either but that is entirely up to the filling facility where I have them filled, and not me. I will say that I've never been charged for a hydro test that I can remember. Been dealing with the same LWS compressor station for over 15 years now.

 

[ultrarunner]

I use to sell tanks on the side when I had an in with Pacific Oxygen that produced and bottles industrial gases and did cylinder hydro and paint and valves.

I would pick up old out of date tanks and pay to have a clean bill of health and Oxygen fill.

When I sold it was always with my last service and fill receipt.

I did old fire extinguisher conversions as some industrial CO2 were quite large…

The valve would be removed for interior inspection and cleaning if needed…

I have 4 sets from MC to full size plus 2 of the Model Ts have acetylene lamps… one with a cylinder and one with generator.

What made it great is neighbor was the super intendant so he would take the cylinders in and bring them back… never had one that could not hydro… I did come across some WWII wire wrapped that were no longer eligible.

Around here the older 1800 pound full size have not been rentals for decades… safe bet all are customer owned.

A lot of the car guys would have a medium set so my most popular… either Victor or Harris regulators.

I liked Victor because for a nominal fee I could have them factory rebuilt.

The Industrial Gas company with facilities up and down California is no more which happens to family owned business after a couple of generations.

 

[5030]

I prefer 120 cubic foot bottles simply because of the ease of handing them and transporting them as well. The only exception to that is my compressed oxygen bottles, They are the BIG ones, I believe they are 200 Cubic foot and a PITA to handle, heavy, and bulky and far as I know of, you cannot buy them anymore, least not around here you cannot. Again, my favorite size are the 120's simply because they are easier to handle and last a fairly long time for shielding gas. I cannot see paying bottle rental anyway.

 

[big bubba]

`thanks for the numerous replies, sounds like owner transfer is not as complicated as i anticipated as long as i retain original paperwork.
safety:
as a transportation caveat: most of us ol' timers know that when you transport acret bottles horizontally, they need to be set upright overnight before use to let the acetone (i believe) in the acetylene settle to avoid possible damage to reg diaphragm. in addition, no petroleum based oils should be used around the oxygen bottle given fire potential.

in addition, always use flash check valves on both regs. it all may seem obvious, but one mishap could prove disastrous. Also, when opening either reg, stand to the side out of the line of fire if something blows. things happen

the acetylene tank transportation precaution may be an old school myth, but worth considering, kind of like the old myth that you should plug the exhaust of a turbo tractor to prevent unlubricated turbo pinwheeling while in transport
thx again, regards

 

[sandman2234]

`thanks for the numerous replies, sounds like owner transfer is not as complicated as i anticipated as long as i retain original paperwork.
safety:
as a transportation caveat: most of us ol' timers know that when you transport acret bottles horizontally, they need to be set upright overnight before use to let the acetone (i believe) in the acetylene settle to avoid possible damage to reg diaphragm. in addition, no petroleum based oils should be used around the oxygen bottle given fire potential.

in addition, always use flash check valves on both regs. it all may seem obvious, but one mishap could prove disastrous. Also, when opening either reg, stand to the side out of the line of fire if something blows. things happen

the acetylene tank transportation precaution may be an old school myth, but worth considering, kind of like the old myth that you should plug the exhaust of a turbo tractor to prevent unlubricated turbo pinwheeling while in transport
thx again, regards

Not a myth, it is fact. The acetone that keeps the acetylene gas stable will affect regulators. Those bottles aren't empty like high pressure gas bottles are. The filling "looks" like concrete but isn't.
David from jax

 

[ultrarunner]

Maybe someone knows why acetylene tanks were strap flat to running boards for use in the Brass Era cars with acetylene lamps.

I know drawing too much acetylene by volume too quickly also creates problems in any tank.

 

[5030]

Not a myth, it is fact. The acetone that keeps the acetylene gas stable will affect regulators. Those bottles aren't empty like high pressure gas bottles are. The filling "looks" like concrete but isn't.
David from jax

Exactly and you can actually have an acetylene bottle tilted and withdraw from it, so long as the tilt isn't over 25 degrees from vertical.

 

[etpm]

Maybe someone knows why acetylene tanks were strap flat to running boards for use in the Brass Era cars with acetylene lamps.

I know drawing too much acetylene by volume too quickly also creates problems in any tank.

I don't know anything about the placement of acetylene tanks on running boards but do know about the excessive draw from acetylene cylinders. Acetylene cylinders are filled with a substance that resembles plaster of paris. This substance is porous and saturated with acetone. Then acetylene is then pumped into the cylinder under pressure where it then dissolves into the acetone. Drawing the acetylene too fast becomes a problem because it starts to draw the acetone out of the cylinder. This will be obvious to the observant torch user because the flame will change. I do not know how acetylene cylinders are filled. When the pressure goes above 15 PSI acetylene gas may spontaneously decompose violently. But there is a gas space above the acetone and before the regulator where the pressure is way higher that 15 PSI. So why doesn't the regulator explode? A chemist explained it to me thusly: The acetylene molecules need to have a certain energy to explode. By accelerating in an open space they can do that. The molecules accelerate through an open space and move faster and faster. Then they run into another acetylene molecule and release the energy from hitting another molecule and then an explosion happens. But because the space in the top of the cylinder is small and the space in the regulator is also small the acetylene molecules can't accelerate to high enough speeds to explode. But after the regulator is the hose which provides a long space for the molecules to speed up, collide, and explode. So this is why the pressure must be kept below 15 PSI because then there is not enough energy to accelerate the molecules fast enough to explode.
Eric

 

[ultrarunner]

Most often these are the 40 cu ft B series acetylene for automotive and we’re common with plumbers.

The MC series is much smaller and for motorcycles.

 

[mrmikey]

Also if you draw the acetylene tank down past empty , it'll start drawing the acetone out also. I've done it a couple times and you can see the wetness on the plate around the flame when you're cutting something, you can smell it as well.

 

[lostcause]

as far as transferring bottles, i think the buyer would carry all the burden, even with "paperwork". seems like you are a conscientious seller, so i would have the potential buyer contact the place where he plans on swapping (or filling, if possible) bottles. around here, virtually all bottles over 60cf are leases, and most all are stamped with the owner on the ring under the valve. they may get a little squirrely when you take a competitor's marked bottle in and tell them you own it. i have (3) purchased 60cf bottles with smooth rings under the valves and i never get any questions on them. 60cf and under are generally considered "owned" bottles around here. whenever i swap, i do make sure they give me back a smooth ring bottle, and also one with a screw on cap. I've had them offer me marked bottles, and ones without threads or cap on argon cylinders recently, but i take the Nancy Reagan approach - just say no.

 

[ultrarunner]

I wait for mine to be returned knowing it’s another trip.

Small bottles had filled at the supplier… they have a series of tanks with the last being at 3000 lbs or something

They put my small tank that is not out of date to the line and open the lowest pressure till equal, close and repeat until I have my 1800 pounds.

When I sold by recertified oxygen tanks my receipt said no questions asked 1 year refund less fill…

Never had one come back.

As for the ownership rings it’s not simple anymore… so many suppliers no longer exist…

Just a quick glance in the bottle room today and many different property of collars and some smooth collars too.

 

[5030]

I buy all m y 120's full from Weldfabulous Nothing on the collar rings but the hydrotest date. Like I said, first thing I do with them is mark them with my company name and get them refilled when empty.

I like dealing with them and shipping via Fed-Ex is included in the price. Get all my TIG consumables from them as well except the Tungsten which I but from Midwest Tungsten in McCook, Illinois. Get my annular cutters from them as well. They are distributors for CK Worldwide, my TIG torch of choice.

 

[WranglerX]

The thing about collar rings is there are so many names and so many companies that no longer exist.... It think its pretty much IGNORED..... Only thing I found different is one local welding supply paint all their bottles blue and stencil their name on them.... That tells me they are lease/exchange and won't deal with customer ownership.... I just drive on by and go another two blocks to my LINDE store....

 

[5030]

Like I said previously, I buy all my 120 cubic foot FILLED bottles of everything but acetylene from Weldfablous. They come via Fed-Ex and are well packaged in foam filled heavy cardboard boxes. Never a scratch on any of them though I do feel bad for the Fed-Ex delivery drivers as they are pretty heavy to move about and I have zero issues getting them refilled at the local (Toledo Ohio) Air Gas compressor station. Drop them off and pick them up a week later and having an account there, they just invoice me. The entire procedure at least for me is painless.

Weldfabulous sells on amazon as well but I buy direct from them anyway. Nice folks to deal with.

 

[CoyPatton]

My question which I believe will largely answer your question for you. How many times when getting a “refill” (my very limited experience with various tanks has always been an exchange) have you bern asked about proof of ownership?