ground hard as a rock....can't get post hole digger to dig

[moloss]

it's been so dry up here in north alabama that the ground is hard as a rock....I can't get more than a few inches into the ground until it stops.....the equipment is in perfect condition so........does anyone have any suggestions? I poured some water where I want to put the posts......should I start it with a pick ax? help......thanks.

 

[Builder]

it's been so dry up here in north alabama that the ground is hard as a rock....I can't get more than a few inches into the ground until it stops.....the equipment is in perfect condition so........does anyone have any suggestions? I poured some water where I want to put the posts......should I start it with a pick ax? help......thanks.

Well, I'm just an old dumb Yankee but I was in your situation once. I had to dig 30 16" x 36" deep deck footings. Believe it or not, I took my big D-handle low speed drill I use for mixing plaster & tile mud and drilled 6 or 8 1" holes into the ground where each footing was to go with a long (like 20") spade bit. Then I filled the holes with water and repleneshed them a few times during the day with the garden hose. I used my portable generator for power. Next day the PHD plowed right down no problem.

Worked great.

 

[thatguy]

I think your options are 1) Take Builders suggestion on watering, 2) hope for rain, or 3) wait until fall.... LOL

I planted a tree a few years back in our red clay and it took me hours to go down just a foot or so.. It was soak the ground, chip off a few pieces of red clay, soak the ground, chip off a few pieces of red clay, (lather, rinse, repeat)..

good luck

brian

 

[Mike120]

I remember dry....I wish I could send you some of this rain!!!!!!!

I usually make sure the "teeth" are sharp on my auger. When it stops digging I usually hold the PHD to one side and then rock over to the other side. Usually rocking it back and forth will break through the "surface crust" and it will eventually go on down.

I've had to fill holes with water in the past and come back the next day but that was rarely necessary.

 

[caddelma]

Several used back (prior to even thinking of owning a tractor) I used a one-man phd under the same conditions. What worked best for me was to have someone else spray water at the ground/auger.

 

[moloss]

just came in from starting holes and then pouring in water, again....maybe over night it will loosen up some....I'll try running the phd with water in the hole (sounds good to me).....with tomorrow being Sunday I will not be able to get back to the fence until after church....I'll let y'all know....and again thanks for the suggestions....Chris.

 

[crbr]

....with tomorrow being Sunday I will not be able to get back to the fence until after church.....

Good deal! You have great priorities.

 

[john_bud]

Just like a drill bit for drilling a metal hole, the auger bit needs to be SHARP. It's probably dull as toast. Possibly at the wrong angle too. The do make replacement tips for augers, special ones for hard soil.

While you probably don't have time to do this now, you can rig up a weight holder for the top of the PHD.

 

[tractorsanmore]

If you have another tractor with a front loader on it you can use it to apply a little down pressure on the digger , most times you just have to rest the bottom of the bucket on it .

 

[toolaholic]

I'm a contr. I have 3 elec. jack hammers with shovel bitts for just what You have. Rent one,well worth it.

 

[Thomas]

Morning Moloss.
I'll keep it short...don't want to dift of the subject,but that's a mighty nice harvest in your sig. pic...care to share??

 

[moloss]

it's not mine (however I sure wish it was mine!) and for that matter it's not even me.....I got the pic off a hunting site

 

[wroughtn_harv]

If you've got a standard pto driven tractor supply kind of post hole digger hard ground is going to be a problem. This is not unlike buying a cordless drill at the box store and expecting to seriously install concrete anchors in a parking garage. It can be done. But it's a lot of work.

If you look at the commercial augers you will notice that the teeth or cutting surfaces are replaceable. The replaceable teeth come in different configurations for different digging conditions.

I have some augers for limestone that cut rock very well. But drilling in damp clay I might as well be using the bottom of a telephone pole for an auger. This is because the twelve inch auger has seventeen carbided teeth that chisel stone in stepped pattern. It's really efficient in rock, but in clay it instantly clogs up.

My hard ground augers cut right down in dry clay. In fact I'd rather dig in dry clay than wet due to the clogging up that occurs when the clay is just perfectly wrong and sticks to itself if it can't find a boot to love.

I put a sixty five gallon water tank from Tractor Suppy on top of my skid steer for when the clay is sticky damp. I have a piece of spa pipe (1 inch pvc flexible tubing) with a ball valve hanging down from the tank to where I can add water to the clay when I want. I'll go down a foot or so and then stop the auger. I'll add a quart or so water to the hole and then go right down. When I come up I have a solid chunk of mud that I'm able to easily dislodge from the auger by quickly alternating the direction of the auger.

I dig all my holes with the tractor down at least three and a half feet, most are closer to four. I use ten and twelve inch augers with a Pengo head. Pengo offers everything from dirt teeth to some pretty serious rock teeth that fit their standard head. These are fine until I hit serious limestone. Then I kick over to the rock augers. The downside of them is they won't dig in dirt. So if the limestone is at sixteen inches I have to go down with the Pengo augers first and then change over to the rock auger.

If what you've got is all you're going to have and you have the pto phd with the pinned in teeth then the best thing to do is keep in mind that an auger chisels it's way down. This is not unlike removing steel or wood with a chisel. You need sharpness with the appropriate angle. On an auger where this is most likely to ignored is on the pilot or fishtail. The fishtail goes in first and if working properly initiates the hole. If it doesn't cut then the sharpness of your teeth aren't going to help much.

Down pressure or crowd will make a difference. There is a reason all of the pto phds have all of those warnings about applying down pressure via leverage. People get hurt, seriously hurt and killed all the time trying to make them into something they aren't. The Belltec assembly like Gary Davis has uses mechanical advantage to transfer the weight of the tractor into down pressure on the auger. Texoma brand style diggers also take advantage of the weight of the drilling rig to create down pressure.

There's a good thread on this topic about three, maybe four years ago. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/13793-digging-post-holes.html?highlight=post+hole+digger

 

[EddieWalker]

I can't add to what Harvey said. He knows more about drilling holes in dirt than anybody.

A few years ago he wrote a similar post and mentioned those Pengo auger bits. I have a cheapy Leinbach Line post hole digger. It worked fine when it was sharp, but would dull out quickly and then just spin and spin without digging. I welded on some metal and sharpened it, which worked good for awhile, but never very long.

After Harvey mentioned those Pengo bits, I did some searches online for them, then looked around at different dealers. I decided to convert my auger bit to hold interchagable teeth and a new tip. It took a few tries with allot of welding and grinding, but now it works great. I put on a Pengo tip, but liked the way the Lowe bits attached better then the Pengo ones, so I have the Lowe carbide cutters on mine.

I have hard packed clay soil mixed in with some iron ore. It's in layers so I run into trouble at different depths. With these cutting tips on my auger, I can still tell when I hit a hard layer, but it still keeps digging, just slower. I just sit there and wait while the auger keeps digging. In time, it always cuts its way through or goes down all the way.

I never add any weight or preasure to my post hole digger and usualy drill most of my post holes by myself.

One tip that I've learned that has really helped is to start a hole with a shovel. It's not for digging, but for getting the auger to dig exactly where I want it to. Sometimes if I just put the auger tip on the spot I want it, it will turn or slide away from my mark. With a small shovel dug hole, it stays right there and starts digging where I want it.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[moloss]

well I was able to get about a foot deeper in one of the holes today the others only about 2-6 inches but a beggar can't be a chooser.......I've been using the water soak method, it works just slow.

 

[Colin Giersberg]

Anyone from Texas care to send some of your rain our way. Like Moloss said, it is dry. We are (were, we did get some rain Friday, at least at our house) 20 inches below normal for the year and 50 inches below normal for the last
2 1/2 years. That is a year of rainfall that we are short!!!

We will take it in any form, and in any container, but please send it.

Thanks in advance for the deluge to come.
Regards Colin

 

[EddieWalker]

Colin,

Be careful what you wish for. We had two years of drought that was leading to massive forest fires and loss of crops. Now we're in flood conditions with people losing their homes to the water and roads washing out.

When it was dry, I could work. In these conditions, I can't build houses to make money, or run my tractors to work on my land. Everything is in limbo because of the never ending mud.

Eddie

 

[weldingisfun]

I can't add to what Harvey said. He knows more about drilling holes in dirt than anybody.

A few years ago he wrote a similar post and mentioned those Pengo auger bits. I have a cheapy Leinbach Line post hole digger. It worked fine when it was sharp, but would dull out quickly and then just spin and spin without digging. I welded on some metal and sharpened it, which worked good for awhile, but never very long.

After Harvey mentioned those Pengo bits, I did some searches online for them, then looked around at different dealers. I decided to convert my auger bit to hold interchagable teeth and a new tip. It took a few tries with allot of welding and grinding, but now it works great. I put on a Pengo tip, but liked the way the Lowe bits attached better then the Pengo ones, so I have the Lowe carbide cutters on mine.

I have hard packed clay soil mixed in with some iron ore. It's in layers so I run into trouble at different depths. With these cutting tips on my auger, I can still tell when I hit a hard layer, but it still keeps digging, just slower. I just sit there and wait while the auger keeps digging. In time, it always cuts its way through or goes down all the way.

I never add any weight or preasure to my post hole digger and usualy drill most of my post holes by myself.

One tip that I've learned that has really helped is to start a hole with a shovel. It's not for digging, but for getting the auger to dig exactly where I want it to. Sometimes if I just put the auger tip on the spot I want it, it will turn or slide away from my mark. With a small shovel dug hole, it stays right there and starts digging where I want it.

Good luck,
Eddie

Eddie, did you post a picture of your auger setup in another thread? If so, where and when, I'd like to see what you did. If not, would you mind posting a pic?
Thanks in advance.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sorry, but I don't have any pics of it. Or at least I don't know where they are if I do. Not where I normally keep my pics, so I'm a little at a loss what happened to them. LOL

Eddie

 

[Builder]

well I was able to get about a foot deeper in one of the holes today the others only about 2-6 inches but a beggar can't be a chooser.......I've been using the water soak method, it works just slow.

What? you mean you didn't run out and buy a D-9 or a bobcat with a fancy auger & roof mounted water tank for your project?

I think some of you guys that are trying to help are great, but you oughta be helpful in a way that is practical for guys who don't have the means or desire tio buy fancy equipment.