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Neil discusses inventory coming back up to more normal and acceptable levels now.

I was just having this conversation with my CPA yesterday. It seems to me there is a correlation between the 5 year tax depreciation and the 5 year powertrain warranty but he didn't think so, what's your thought about this?

Very interesting video, thanks for the upload.

Please explain.

People are gettin the heck out of California Ultra. By the time that kooky governor of yours gets done with that state it will be a third world country.

I would like to understand how it compares to Kubota's HST+

I know about Lawn Land. That dealer has left me scratching my head more than a time or two. I'm not surprised that they are losing the JD brand, I'm surprised they were able to hold onto it as long as they did.

Wouldn't surprise me. However, it doesn't look like Powell's rate increases are having much effect so far either.

And Kathie Wood keeps crying wolf about deflation 😂

Who's your JD dealer?

What doesn't make sense to me is the price of these small compact tractors in comparison to the price of a car these days. The compact tractors cost more then the cars do.

I really appreciate the book recommendation guys. I have been wanting to find a book about this for quite some time. I will definitely add it to my audible library tonight.

That's the only thing I don't care to take a depreciation on 😅

And you most likely won't even need to glow it to start up. I have always appreciated an engine that fires right up on the first turn of the key. My old Ford 3000 does it.

And continuous improvement adds value which costs money and drives up costs.

If Yanmar can get their act together I am willing to take another look at them. I personally think they are over priced for a brand that has such a tiny slice of the market and a very dismal dealer network but they do back all of their tractors with a 10 year warranty which the other ones do...

Marketing is a problem along with some other issues. I was actually looking at them real serious a while back but when I spoke to the dealers what I found out is Yanmar didn't hold up their end of the agreement when it came to taking care of their dealers. A lot of dealers were left with...

Here's the thing with Yanmar. They are really in business to sell engines. The tractor gig is a side hustle. They made a decision a long time ago to make a marriage with John Deere and that is who they are beholding to.

I appreciate the report and I don't doubt it. However, sales are down overall a significant amount from a year ago. It is going to be interesting to watch what happens to this industry over the next year.

😂 😂

100% but the problem is there is very little information out there about commercial. I have never found a forum like TBN for commercial real estate.

I'm a commercial landlord Ultra, sorry I probably should have stated that.

That is what always knocks the other brands out of the running for most of the folks who are in the market for a tractor. Kubota and Deere have a network advantage over all the other brands. An out of town dealer has to be better and offer more than a local dealer and that is a very tough hurdle...

My dealer said the same thing and never moved one of them all year. So take what a dealer says with a grain of salt.

This same thing happens in real estate. If us landlords fall too far behind on inflation/rent increases and the current tenant doesn't want to pay then we find new tenants that will pay.

It sounds like you got a money leak going on there Preacher. The first place I would check is the wife valve.

Currencies are something I know very little about. I know George Soros and Stanley Druckenmiller bet against the British pound in 1992 and made over a billion dollars but don't know much more than that.

I won't argue with that 😅

I think you make a valid point Hay Dude but I just want to point out that you are in a different league around here than most of these folks including myself. You purchase tractors for your business which is a tax write off. Those tractors and mowers make you money and from what I gather from...

Well that depends on how much money you're talking about 😁

There was no point at that time. When you have a dealer talking like that they are firm on their asking price so all you can do is wait them out. He just built a big, new place just a few miles down the road from the old one. I bet he spent somewhere around $7-8 million on it so you combine that...

Same here in my neck of the woods. I drove down to my local dealer in the spring of this year to get a price on one of his tractors and he was practically asking MSRP minus $700 which was a rebate from Kubota. Told me how if I wanted one I better buy that day because he already had all the other...

Torvy, if you can afford to wait until next year I think you will find some deals.

Yeah but with high interest rates comes another opportunity for people who have capital to invest.

This is about the third straight quarter that tractor sales have been on the decline. As mentioned last year, I believed the huge surge in compact tractor sales was tied to the overheated housing market and once that popped we would see demand sharply fall. My father has also reported seeing...

You'll be running like a Deere when you see the price 🤑

This is funny as hell. I'm adding it to my quotes!

Good post but is this a typo here?

It seems from following this thread that not all regen technology is created equal.

Jethro, my advice is to wait until next year when this industry goes bust and gets hungry. These guys aren't worth anybody's time right now.

Scotty I appreciate your attempt to bring clarification but I understood what you and Torvy were saying. And to be clear and fair this conversation turned into two conversations at once. I initially took issue with Torvy about his confidence of taking a lump some of money and investing it in the...

Please explain why you invested in that company especially at that time.

I would like to know the answer to this. The financial media is notorious for pushing the folklore of these million dollar stocks but of course they never bother to explain how anyone would have picked these stocks in their infancy when no one knew anything about them. My hats off to you arrow...

It is built into the price depending on the term they approve you for.

I'm glad you shared this because I have seen many of these same type of articles and the question I am always left with is how or why would any investor make a $10k investment in a company that they know nothing about and has no track record or history to it? Very recently I was reading about a...

Same, cheers 🍻

I will add to this the finance charge to each customer is determined by the time horizon they are willing to approve the customer for. When I was crunching the numbers a few months ago a 60 month loan from Kubota for what I was purchasing came out to be somewhere around 4% interest over that 5...

Torvy and Scotty, I will admit that I am no expert when it comes to investing in equities/stocks. I can see that the two of you are fond of that asset type and I would go as far to say quite bullish. That's fine. What the two of you have convinced me of is you have a perspective about them that...

I 100% percent agree with this ^^^

I wasn't talking about investing in general, I was specifically referencing equities. Equities rise and fall with the economy. Right now equity investors are not having a good time. The stock market I believe has come to the end of an era and the new era is going to an era of high interest...

Torvy has been implying for years now that he can easily go into equities and make a return that outperforms his debt obligations with financing. Where I take issue with that is it is not a guarantee. He says it like it is some guaranteed sure thing that will happen and you and I Scotty both...

Equities can be a slippery slope Torvy.

:unsure:....or the money you would have paid cash for it is worth more in an investment in that 5 years. As you said, there is not any places right now that is a great investment. That could soon change but as it stands on the date of this response there isn't. So it is unlikely that the resale...

I have to disagree with you on this one Torvy. Low interest rates are what caused all the bubbles including the housing market that are now bursting. The bidding wars which led to the inflated housing prices was a direct result of interest rates that were kept too low for too long. The Fed is to...

They're trying to get some instant sales without building a network.

I would like to know how they did that. Where did they get that information from considering all of that information would be private and proprietary?

Interesting :unsure: I will have to do some reading up about that.

Now that you had to ask it's nowhere to be found....hold on let me see where I saw it the other day Ah yes here it is: https://www.brucestractorsales.com/pdf/ls-warranty.pdf Now I will say it could not be found directly on the manufacturers website.

No kidding? Is that what you do for a living?

Look at page 2 section J of the warranty statement: https://www.kioti.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Warranty-EmissionsStatement2013-12-10V4.pdf This has nothing to do with the manufacturer not returning calls or emails. Kioti does not communicate at all despite there being a phone number and...

Oh I have, it's the equivalent to chewing nails. This is an incorrect statement. LS, Kubota and JD do not have any arbitration clauses in their warranties.

Specifically with Kioti/Daedong they have a forced arbitration clause in their warranty which strips consumers of their right to bring litigation against the company if there is a breech of warranty. Another problem/issue is the company refuses to return calls or emails.

The issue is more then just the dealer network.

OP, have you even attempted to do any research on your own before posting this thread?

Still waiting on that update.

This is an example of where it can make sense to purchase the Korean tractor over the Kubota. In this case it made sense because the LS dealer was better and offered you more then the Kubota dealer did. To offer free pickup and delivery for warranty work would have gotten my attention. That...

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to sell it?

I have actually finished the research and are in negotiations with two dealers right now. I just hope I'm not kicking myself next year for buying it this year.

I think you're right. I can't imagine anywhere else something like that would have been shown.

Most options on tractors these days are dealer installed. In fact you can't even get prices on a lot of the options on the manufacturers websites without going through a dealer. About the only thing that's not dealer installed is the cabs.

In regards to the tractor world I think what you're saying is the time horizon is what determines the rate percentage that the consumer will be paying.

There is no perfect tractor or brand. I think the closest to perfect any tractor ever came was the old Fords. To answer your question, I am in the middle of buying a tractor now.

In this next update I want to dispel two myths that this industry peddles to entice consumers to spend more of their money at the time of sale. The first is zero percent financing. There is NO such thing as free financing. It doesn't exist period! To call financing free is just a lie. This is...

How do you personally define bad mouthing another brand?

LS I don't have any dog in this fight. As you can see I have a Ford. I am strictly talking market share here. None of this reflects my personal opinion of likes or dislikes about any brand.

To further verify my claim above, Neil Messick just uploaded this video today.

Yeah this a new one to me, I've never heard this before. The OP is educating me now. He definitely did his homework and don't mind saying myself that I'm proud of him for this being his first post.

OP, You have apparently done you're homework. My hats off to you for doing that first before coming on here to ask us to baby feed you the information. You also are asking for the right kind of opinion. You asked, Now you have narrowed down your question to people who are actually qualified to...

Here is some follow up information on the model F.

This may be the oldest surviving archived piece of tractor marketing history. This is so old I don't even know where this film could have been shown to people during that era of time.

I think what's becoming evident through this discussion is different markets play the local market differently.

Also correct. It amazed me when I was in the sizing phase of my research how much more tractor you needed to go from 5ft cutters to 6ft cutters.

100% correct. This statement can be backed up by looking at the sizing recommendations on manufactures websites.

What he said ^ Bingo!

Not in my neck of the woods they're not.

The Kubota standard L is the most sold tractor in this country. That tractor is Kubota's bread and butter. It is also what every other manufacturer copies or competes against. That is exactly what the Koreans are doing and is well said. Your perspective of all this is right on point.

:oops: All I can say is my hat's off to you sir. To be your age and still be working and be computer literate is quite amazing. My hats off to you. Thanks for being apart of TBN.

It costs around $1500 to split a tractor down in my neck of the woods. So you're saying a third function valve is $2800?

Do you have health insurance?

That sounds like Agco.

To me it is a no brainer. It's very cheap insurance. Anything can happen and you are mostly covered if it does.

There was a post by a member in another group that I belong to that was talking about this. I have uploaded a picture of the spring pin plug under an L3560le. One of the posters has an L5740 which came with HST Plus and his started leaking around 1000 hours. He said Kubota charged him around...

Would either of you care to provide names or links to the other versions? I've not seen or heard anyone talk about these.

I would caution you about your perspective on this. Tractors a very different animal then cars. One common issue that can occur with tractors is the input shaft seal and engine rear main seal can fail and start leaking. When this happens you are looking at having to split the tractor to get...

Finally a quick attach for a PTO powered 3 point implement:

But then Kubota wouldn't finance you if you had bad credit. They are very discriminating when it comes to financing. It seems they only want people with a 730 or higher credit score.

Why?

How much of a difference are you seeing out there between Kubota and the Korean brands Torvy? Everybody beats Deere :rolleyes: CU rates around here have shot up by a lot the last couple of weeks. What kind of rates are you seeing out there?

I will take you guys at your word. In my neck of the woods I didn't see any bargains like that but then again everything is jacked up right now. Correct me if I'm wrong but you guys purchased your tractors pre pandemic?

The difference is more then just the dealer network but it is a large aspect of it for sure. After analyzing offers from all of them what I discovered is the South Koreans do not compete with Kubota or Deere on soft value. To get more specific about this the differences are: They do not offer...

I agree with Tractorable. 8 acres is not much property especially for tractors of that size and weight.

Yeah book values are just a national average. There are other sources that supposedly give more accurate, local market values but then as you mentioned, it also comes down to what the dealer values it at minus his profit that he will try to make on it. However, I am not so familiar with...

I am in the real estate business and land surveyors as what you are referring to them as are appraisers. There are other types of appraisers out there that deal in rare, hard to value assets like jewelry, antiques, vintage cars etc. but I have never heard of any dealing in tractors, sailboats or...

People try to sell junk everyday and get away with it. He's asking as much or more then what some sold at auction that were in good running condition: https://www.auctiontime.com/listings/farm-equipment/auction-results/list/category/1100/tractors/manufacturer/john-deere/model/2240?ecid=7

Interesting.

:oops: Yeah that is not acceptable. That would not sit well with me either.

A professional surveyor? Please explain.

The question is how much of a depreciation hit are used tractors taking these days?

No not at all. I was using that location as an example because I quoted shooterdon.

As explained in another thread by me, it comes down to each person's individual circumstances and local market. The best tractor to buy in Johannesburg, MI will not necessarily be the best tractor to buy in NW Ohio. I will also point out that everybody values things differently. What is...

That's a true statement, Ford all the way! ;)

😂😂

The two pedal system is universally accepted as the best design. I too can say that I much prefer it over the treadle pedal. Kubota really needs to drop it and move to where the rest of the industry has gone.

When he does weigh in on discussions he does bring meaningful contributions. I can honestly say that the guy is fair. I have had some personal discussions with him in the past and he has always treated me fairly and with respect. I think overall he is a good moderator. I belong to some other...

I was flipping through some old threads tonight and came across a member I haven't seen on here in a while. Does anyone know what happened to Steppenwolfe??

I totally second sScotty. He is definitely one of our resident experts here. It is always a pleasure to have him join in on a discussion. I will also add in Mharry. The guy is also a wealth of knowledge. LeonZ is also a great contributor over on the Flail Mowers threads. I would also put Hay...

I'm in the same camp partner. I'm buying it and driving it until the wheels fall off.

Thanks for the reminder Jeff9366 ;)

A recent discussion I had with members on here about which of two tractor brands the OP should choose led me to what I think is my final conclusion on this whole subject. I will repeat it here as I stated it there:

OP, I'm going to shoot real straight with you. You don't need any opinions right now you need an education. You are a long ways off from picking any particular machine. You have a lot of research and hours of study ahead of you. The best thing I can recommend to you right now is reading this...

I'm wondering now if this is also true for Kioti.

Ah ok, thanks. I will try that.

Can anybody explain to me what the multi quote feature is???

Please explain.

I don't have any experience with this dealer but Google reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt. Merchants frequently solicit good reviews from customers which in my opinion invalidates the review.

When you price what a commercial grade, diesel zero turn costs you can purchase a 40hp tractor for about the same price. It just doesn't make sense from a value stand point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again and I'll probably say it a hundred more times, Ford is the best tractor there ever was!

In the process of it as we speak.

There was a legal case I read about a couple of weeks ago about a Kioti dealer that had a grapple unmount from the SSQA on the loader and fell off and severely hurt him. Daedong ended up getting sued.

My thoughts exactly!

This has been a damn good thread and my hats off to all of the great contributions that have been made to it to give such a satisfying read. It was a pleasant surprise after returning from a two week hiatus from the site. Now to throw my own hat in the ring on this discussion. To the OP and...

Oh yeah you had talked about this before. "double thick blow-molded canopy with insulation" Dang, how the heck do you know this Scotty?

I always thought it was based on cylinder hydraulic pressure. However, you raise some good questions :unsure: I bet M Harry would know this. Harry if you're reading this thread please weigh in on this for us.

I'm not familiar with this, please elaborate.

RSR, this was extremely good posting here. I feel it needs to be pointed out to everyone that if you're going to argue this is how it's done. Bring data to the conversation to back up what you're saying. Don't use anecdotal evidence if you can help it please. You have actually educated me about...

RSR, after this post I have made a mental note to myself to never get into a squabble with you about LS 😂

Ok you are the first member on here that I am aware of that has actually purchased a Korean tractor brand outside of a reasonable driving distance and that gives your opinion more credibility. It's easy to say you will purchase a Korean brand when they're right next door or a few miles down the...

Did they say why they dropped them?

There is no such thing as zero percent.

Yes I'm aware of the $500 cash discount shenanigans that the dealers try to deceive customers with :rolleyes: But what I was referring to was the ACH discount.

This ^ was enlightening.

This was before financing costs were factored in unless you paid cash.

This is the part of buying a tractor nobody seems to understand and admittedly it took me too long to figure it out myself. There is no such thing as zero percent financing. When you figure out what the cash price is versus the finance price that's when you understand how much interest the...

Oh let me see here...you mean like the D series with no live PTO? 😂 😂 😂

Please tell me what their company philosophy is as I have never understood it.

And you have to ask the question why? There is obviously not much demand for them but why?

Snob you can just call Trigreen the next time you're in the market for a tractor 😂 They're even worse, they won't even bother to come out and say, "there it is." Lol...

Such as?

No pun intended right 😂

Why did you decide to exit the business?

:unsure:...There's some logic to what you're saying here but I'm not sure this works in every business.

No, what he needs to do is get some other quotes right now. The owner of that dealer will not see this in the same manner as the OP. This is all about leverage. If he can locate another dealer with a better offer then he is in the position to challenge the other dealers price. If not then he may...

You make some valid points. I had another insider tell me the same thing. However, don't complain when the customer buys from the dealer in the next county over because he beat your price by a considerable margin.

Yeah I have to agree that was a really crappy experience. Neither of which makes any sense to me.

What was the other "brand" that you went with?

That's what makes these machines so versatile yet challenging to understand for the uninitiated. They are set up based on the environment they will be worked in.

I do not understand this. That discount is not conditional on participating dealers. All dealers are required to participate.

I think your big mistake was not getting a quote before you told him how you would pay for it. All he did was add it all back on to the options. I understand your frustration, believe me. I've been through it myself. I started a thread last month warning everyone out there that dealers are price...

Thanks for reporting back Number15. I have made a mental note to check mine as well when I get it this year. By the way, how does it cut?

Agreed. There has been more irresponsibility with the way the EPA has mandated these changes then the way energy companies have polluted the environment. Biggest example of this is the final tier IV emissions requirements that get talked about on here all the time. I can honestly say as being...

Snob you make me think :unsure:

I found this thread today and wish there was a way to frame it as I think it perfectly encapsulates and represents what this community is all about. The discussion was informative, insightful and full of deferring opinions while maintaining a respectful attitude to all the members that...

This was a good article, thanks for sharing.

You can never go wrong with a Ford. Best tractors there ever was.

Other then our member PTSG, I doubt anyone has ever even heard of this brand. You must live somewhere over in Europe.

Yep, I'm patiently waiting for that to return 😏

If you don't mind me asking, what business are you in Number 15?

What make and model tractor does your buddy have?

That's a good point. However, the opposite could be true also. The manufacturers could be under rating the lift capacities to keep from getting sued. I don't know the answer to this but if anyone does I would like to hear their experience with it.

Unless the finance costs are stupid high. Then when the market turns the other way you lose.

What you and Neil are saying is the consumer needs to research this implement like they would any other. It's not as simple as just looking at lift capacity numbers alone.

You're not supposed to mention that 🤫

Maybe they should :ROFLMAO:

Any particular reason why?

Nobody wants the energy companies to dump the waste they create from the byproduct of their drilling into the rain forests, creeks, rivers, lakes and oceans. That is totally irresponsible, destructive and even sinful. I am one of the most hawkish people you will ever meet when it comes to fossil...

My two cents is you ideally want to at least be in the middle of that range. I would not purchase a tractor with the bare minimum PTO hp.

What you're saying is true but current energy policies are what the problem is right now.

:ROFLMAO: OMG that's so true!

Correct me if I'm wrong Scotty, but I sum this up as you saying the whole business model has changed in the tractor world and you see there being more value in the older tractors then the newer ones due to all the reasons you stated above.

You have a point.

Wow, that's crazy as I have never heard of an air cooled diesel engine. I thought they had to be water cooled due to the all the heat and combustion pressure they are under. I am no expert but that really blows my mind. Wow, you did an incredible job on that. I had no idea that you restored...

What are the areas of ethical responsibility that is specific to this industry? For example: Energy companies have an ethical responsibility to protect the environment as they produce the natural resources necessary to power homes and cars. The tech companies have a responsibility to protect...

Why not just buy a new one then and get a warranty 🤷‍♂️

Air cooled? What...Really?

Please keep us informed as to what you determine was the cause and fix for it.

This is true and I agree with this.

Nope, I'm not seeing it either. Climate change is the biggest government fabricated tax scam in the history of the world. It blows my mind all the time how really intelligent people fall for that crap.

🤦‍♂️

How did you know the brand and model of an obscure Italian tractor? That's crazy that you would know that off the top of your head like that.

That is really surprising! Befco is one of the best brands in the business. I am seriously considering buying one. I would like to know what caused this.

Sorry for your loss. There is no one that will love you like your parents.

Lol... 😄

OMG 😂😂😂

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/price-of-diesel-hits-all-time-high-straining-the-trucking-industry

How did you know that?

What make and model of flail mower is that?

I hate when that happens! It's why I stick to the places I go to to eat.

This is why customers don't return. Loyalty is earned. Charging a half hour of labor to change out a simple part like that deserves to be price checked the next time around.

:oops:

Those are the best times of your life right there. Enjoy and cherish them.