10,000 Mile Oil Changes and Sealed Transmissions

[RalphVa]

The 吐ree oil changes and tire rotations at the Toyota dealer for the first 30,000 miles on my 2016 Toyota Avalon recently ended so I actually sat down and read the maintenance section of my owners manual.

The manual states that the oil should be changed every 10,000 miles with 0W20 synthetic motor oil.

Also, the owners manual did not recommend for the transmission oil to be changed at all. Looking under the hood the transmission is sealed with no obvious way to drain and/or fill it.

There痴 also no timing belt.

I think I知 gonna do it guys and just change the oil every 10K with synthetic, rotate the tires every 5K, tires and brakes as needed, and not touch the transmission.

What do you guys think? Think she値l go 300K miles with 10,000 mile oil changes and not touching the transmission?

Article about it from edmunds: https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-your-oil.html

Think the manual transmission on our VW Cabrio was sealed.

I used 10k changes on synthetic oil in our VW TDI for 6 changes until VW bought it back.

Now have gone two 10k changes on our Mazda3 using 0w20 Mobil 1.

Going multiple years on the Tacoma and Isuzu diesel generator using synthetic oil. Changed the Tacoma from 5w30 to 0w20 and have the VW TDI 5w30 in the Isuzu.

Ralph

 

[ovrszd]

Yes, the Hemi with MDS cylinder deactivation does require a specific weight of oil for the MDS to function properly. So you should be using 5W-20.

Rob

Thanks Rob. I finally did something right!!!

 

[prof fate]

At work we have Ford Transit 150's (full size van) and they have a mtce free transmission - no dipstick. Supposedly a window to see fluid level but our 3 techs can't find it.
My 2014 subaru with CVT has no fluid change intervals.

And if you look, practically NO newer vehicles have fuel filters anymore - it's built into the pump assy in the tank and gets changed when the pump goes bad.

The 吐ree oil changes and tire rotations at the Toyota dealer for the first 30,000 miles on my 2016 Toyota Avalon recently ended so I actually sat down and read the maintenance section of my owners manual.

The manual states that the oil should be changed every 10,000 miles with 0W20 synthetic motor oil.

Also, the owners manual did not recommend for the transmission oil to be changed at all. Looking under the hood the transmission is sealed with no obvious way to drain and/or fill it.

There痴 also no timing belt.

I think I知 gonna do it guys and just change the oil every 10K with synthetic, rotate the tires every 5K, tires and brakes as needed, and not touch the transmission.

What do you guys think? Think she値l go 300K miles with 10,000 mile oil changes and not touching the transmission?

Article about it from edmunds: https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-your-oil.html

 

[swines]

I'm not familiar with Toyota products, but I am with Ford. On the two Ford vehicles with sealed transmissions that I have, Ford recommends a service interval of 120,000 miles. The real interesting one is the cooling system on the 6.7 liter diesel. The recommended drain / flush / replace is 100,000 miles. I asked a service tech about that and he said - "It's really expensive because it is an extremely involved process."

I thought, "How involved could it be?" So, I looked up the service procedure. The cooling system is drained and flushed. It is then filled with distilled water and the engine is run for 30 minutes and the cooling system is drained. It is then refilled with distilled water and run for another 30 minutes, drained, and then refilled with new, premixed anti-freeze with an anti-cavitation additive.

The point is, the new vehicles have completely different service requirements when compared to older vehicles. You cannot apply the requirements of older vehicles to the new ones. One of the reasons the new vehicles use the 5W-40 oils is that the thinner oil is required to lube all of the moving parts in things like variable valve time systems, cam phasers, etc.

 

[Oaktree]

The point is, the new vehicles have completely different service requirements when compared to older vehicles. You cannot apply the requirements of older vehicles to the new ones. One of the reasons the new vehicles use the 5W-40 oils is that the thinner oil is required to lube all of the moving parts in things like variable valve time systems, cam phasers, etc.

Am I the only one here who's skeptical about these ever-longer service intervals, or modern sealed transmissions? Sounds to me more like forced parts replacement and or deliberately limiting life. I'm sure great strides have been made in both fluid technology and the components themselves, but parts and lubricants still wear out/get dirty.

I think most manufacturers realize most folks keep their vehicles between 5-7 years and trade thus the lifetime transmission recommendation. I try to keep my vehicles longer.

Most, if not all vehicles I've ever owned were older than that when I first bought them!

In response to the OP's question, if I were to ever own another toyota product (cold day you-know-where), I sure wouldn't try to push service limits, if anything I'd do fluid changes well before the recommendations. Then again, my experience with the brand has been less than delightful.

 

[Turbys_1700]

The ZF 8 speed in my 2015 Chrysler has a nice drain plug in the bottom of the transmission pan to facilitate draining the fluid. To check the fluid level though you must put it up on a lift and check the fluid level from a side mounted check port/plug. They could have put in a dipstick and fill tube at very little cost but chose the M Farmall method of checking the fluid.

 

[TractorNH]

Why do you say that "Flushing is also the worst thing you can do to a transmission" and then advocate doing pretty much the same thing as flushing?
Also, while the transmission is sealed, it is vented (unlike the brake system) so the fluid is not hygroscopic. The clutches are however hygroscopic (which is why getting coolant into your ATF can kill the transmission).

Aaron Z

"Flushing" is done by outside mechanical means (a separate piece of equipment) and the pressures used can dislodge metal filings and gunk that have settled over time in the transmission, resuspending them into fluid and increasing the chance they will settle where they can cause problems or blockages in the fluid pathways. What I advocated was not a flush, it is using the transmission itself to simply pump out the fluid using it's internal pump and refilling it with new fluid as you pump out the old.

You can search many forums about how the Toyota WS ATF is hygroscopic just like today's ethanol gasoline is hygroscopic. It will absorb moisture from the air. The transmission is vented but not to atmosphere. Depending on the year they are vented in different ways. Many are vented to the engine by use of a special valve similar to a PCV valve.

 

[aczlan]

"Flushing" is done by outside mechanical means (a separate piece of equipment) and the pressures used can dislodge metal filings and gunk that have settled over time in the transmission, resuspending them into fluid and increasing the chance they will settle where they can cause problems or blockages in the fluid pathways. What I advocated was not a flush, it is using the transmission itself to simply pump out the fluid using it's internal pump and refilling it with new fluid as you pump out the old.

You do realize that the flushing machine used a shop goes inline between the transmission and the transmission cooler right?
It puts fluid back in at the same rate as it comes out and the fluid goes back in through the return line.
Here is the manual for a SnapOn TRANSTECH II which specifically talks about connecting it into the transmission cooler lines: http://www.snaponequipment.com/Common/UserManuals/ZEETF102A.pdf

Aaron Z

 

[BigBlue1]

Am I the only one here who's skeptical about these ever-longer service intervals, or modern sealed transmissions? Sounds to me more like forced parts replacement and or deliberately limiting life. I'm sure great strides have been made in both fluid technology and the components themselves, but parts and lubricants still wear out/get dirty.

Most, if not all vehicles I've ever owned were older than that when I first bought them!

In response to the OP's question, if I were to ever own another toyota product (cold day you-know-where), I sure wouldn't try to push service limits, if anything I'd do fluid changes well before the recommendations. Then again, my experience with the brand has been less than delightful.

As to your first question, I'm not too worried about things. Until or unless vehicles start having problems where their major components are requiring replacement at a rate worse than the past average I'm going to just enjoy the longer service intervals. Nothing but your 'common wisdom' is indicating that these new service intervals are a problem. Not that long ago people replaced spark plugs every 30K or so. Now 100K plugs are fairly common. I don't hear much about ignition-related issues happening these days. We also used to change oil every 3k miles. Now I typically use synthetic and go 8-10K. Lots of stuff has gotten better over time. In the 80's and 90's I would be ready to dump a vehicle that was approaching 100K miles on it ASAP. Now I'd buy a vehicle with 80K and plan to drive it for quite a while without worry.

That said, I tend not to own vehicles much beyond 150K miles just because I tend to want something newer by then, though I did have a Lexus IS300 that we kept in the family for about 275K miles after purchasing new. I've had great luck with Toyota vehicles for the most part and I'll keep buying them if they happen to meet my needs. I've had problems with some Chrysler vehicles (Jeeps from the early 2000's) but really good luck with my 2010 Ram 1500 and now my 2017 Ram 2500. I try to make good decisions at purchase time, maintain them to commonly held standards, and I've had pretty good luck over the last 30 years.

While manufacturers are certainly looking for ways to cut costs they aren't likely to do something that gives their brand a black eye. It's bad enough having to replace timing belts every 100K or so on foreign cars, but if they were dropping transmissions earlier than their competitors their sales would take a dive over time. I don't see them risking that.

Rob

 

[Trillium Farm]

You do realize that the flushing machine used a shop goes inline between the transmission and the transmission cooler right?
It puts fluid back in at the same rate as it comes out and the fluid goes back in through the return line.
Here is the manual for a SnapOn TRANSTECH II which specifically talks about connecting it into the transmission cooler lines: http://www.snaponequipment.com/Common/UserManuals/ZEETF102A.pdf Aaron Z

I don't think he's interested in reality, but only to have is old fashion-ideas confirmed.