100+hp tractor recommendations

[IslandTractor]

The problem is the smaller the machine, the more fuel per acre no matter what you do.

I don't think that is correct. If you have a 50 hp tractor pulling a 40hp load, you will be more efficient in use of fuel than having a 100hp tractor pull that 40hp load. The key to efficiency is matching load with tractor size and paying attention to ballast, tires etc.

To give an exaggerated example to reinforce the point, a 100hp tractor with turf tires and insufficient ballast would hardly be as efficient as a properly ballasted 50hp tractor with R1 tires when pulling the same load.

I'm sure there are examples where the larger tractor would be more efficient but my point is that bigger is not always more efficient of fuel.

 

[Soundguy]

I don't think that is correct. If you have a 50 hp tractor pulling a 40hp load, you will be more efficient in use of fuel than having a 100hp tractor pull that 40hp load. The key to efficiency is matching load with tractor size and paying attention to ballast, tires etc.

.

That's not completely true.. or at least.. the difference is almost nill.

I can mow my 10ac with my 70 hp tractor or my 95 hp tractor using a 10' mower. both take about 3 hours... (same trans).. both use about 5g of fuel.

I can also swap that 95 hp tractor to a 15' mower, and cut that 10ac, and drop time to about 2 hours... guess what.. still uses that same 5g of fuel.

That tells me that it takes about 5g of fuel to mow that 10ac. By your example, the 95 hp tractor would be wasting lots of fuel. in reality.. it's only making the hp it needs to run the load. There may be a small loss due to extra weight of the 95 hp tractor vs the 70.. but not much..

any more.. on a decent running diesel.. fuel usage will be based on time at load. equal loads on 2 diesels should run about the same fuel usage, give or take a lil.. even if one is a lil bigger or smaller.. so long as the load is within the range of both machines..

soundguy

 

[IslandTractor]

There may be a small loss due to extra weight of the 95 hp tractor vs the 70.. but not much..

any more.. on a decent running diesel.. fuel usage will be based on time at load. equal loads on 2 diesels should run about the same fuel usage, give or take a lil.. even if one is a lil bigger or smaller.. so long as the load is within the range of both machines..

soundguy

Sounds like you don't like my example but that you agree with me that the statement I was disputing is wrong. That disputed point was "The problem is the smaller the machine, the more fuel per acre no matter what you do."

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you are looking at 100+ HP tractors, I dont think 4-6000 hours would be detrimental to the lifespan of one of these IF and that is a big if it was serviced properly. Those tractors rountinely run 15-20,000 hours between overhauls on the engines if taken care off. 4500 hours would be about 2-3 years of running on an average farm based on what we used to run them like 14 hour per day for at least 8-9 months out of the year.and 6-7 day per week. Back in the 70s when the 9000 Fords were being made, I would put 2000 hours on that tractor each year starting with the spring tillage, summer cultivation and also fall tillage, pasture mowing, etc. It only got a break around November to March when the winter rains set in.
That is why I gave up farming in the 70's, I was making about a buck 40 an hour for my time. I dont know what the new tractors in that HP do, but back then, even a brand new tractor would use 1-2 quarts of oil in a 14 hour day under heavy load. That was just the way they were and all brands were the same whether Ford, IH, or JD.

 

[Negligence]

That's where it concerns me because it's really hard to know how well/often a tractor was serviced. Unless you know the owner well, it's impossible to know.

And unfortunately for me no farmers around me are selling tractors this size so I would never be able to verify a maintenance record.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

That's where it concerns me because it's really hard to know how well/often a tractor was serviced. Unless you know the owner well, it's impossible to know.

And unfortunately for me no farmers around me are selling tractors this size so I would never be able to verify a maintenance record.

Look at lease returns. Many have full service records as they've been serviced at the dealership where leased. Local Deere dealer currently has a long list of 3 year lease returns that were used at Kentucky State Fairgrounds. Prices didn't look too bad.

http://tractorhouse.com/Listings/Li...e2043f781166539680e8309&dlr=1&Pref=0&Thumbs=1

Click on "FARM EQUIPMENT FOR SALE" Then go to page 4. It'll show tractors up to 99hp. A couple really good deals on demo/lease return 6430's.

This is the dealer I mentioned that has/had? the Fairgrounds lease tractors listed. I don't see them specifically mentioned on their webpage. They were listed in a newspaper add I read just recently. They even had a few 7000 series tractors, well above 100hp.

I realize this is way off the beaten path considering where you live, but I thought it might be a good source of price reference and a general idea of what a dealer may have on lease program returns.

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds like you don't like my example but that you agree with me that the statement I was disputing is wrong. That disputed point was "The problem is the smaller the machine, the more fuel per acre no matter what you do."

Yes.. I guess.. Not that I didn't like it.. I just don't think it fit the argument well.. however.. I am in agreement with disputing the other posters comment.

soundguy

 

[slowzuki]

Sorry very specifically, a larger tractor with matched implements uses less fuel per acre than a small one with matched implements, and it gets it done faster. There are some other specific exceptions related to wheel slip and balasting too but in general this is true.

Re your point about small loads, thats why you have chore tractors so you aren't doing undersized tasks.

If we are talking economic efficiency, on small farms, then yes there are more small tasks than large, so a big tractor can't save enough fuel during tillage to offset the waste doing other small jobs.

I don't think that is correct.

 

[IslandTractor]

Sorry very specifically, a larger tractor with matched implements uses less fuel per acre than a small one with matched implements, and it gets it done faster. There are some other specific exceptions related to wheel slip and balasting too but in general this is true.

Re your point about small loads, thats why you have chore tractors so you aren't doing undersized tasks.

If we are talking economic efficiency, on small farms, then yes there are more small tasks than large, so a big tractor can't save enough fuel during tillage to offset the waste doing other small jobs.

There must be some data out there which would be helpful "In God we trust, all others must show data" I'd love to know if U Nebraska or one of the other Ag states has done the sort of data gathering relevant to this question. I cannot imagine that they have not but I've not seen it myself.

I have no doubt that from a labor/profit perspective that larger tractors can be more efficient, the question here is just fuel consumption per unit of work done in a real world setting. If a 100hp tractor was always pulling a 100hp load then I can see that it would be more efficient than a 50hp tractor pulling a 50hp load for twice as long. There are some basic friction losses etc that presumably are less in a larger engine/machine running half as long. However, in the real world tractors rarely if ever function at 100% and even tasks like plowing must involve variable amounts of power.

 

[flusher]

I agree to a point. You can buy real cheap 100+ HP tractors. Just pray to God they don't break. Then you can throw all that cheap out the door. Thats the gocha!

Right.

IMHO you shouldn't be looking at used 100+ hp tractors with 4-5000 or more hours on the engine unless you are willing and able to do a lot of the wrenching yourself--which includes all of the periodic maintenance, a lot of the leaking seal work (axles, pto, hydraulic hose and rams, oil pan, tappet cover), engine tuneups, bolt-on equipment swaps (alternator, hydraulic pumps/rams, water pump), radiator replacement, etc. You don't necessarily need to do this work indoors. My neighbor with the Steiger does this kind of maintenance in the field, working out of his well-equipped pickup truck. Another neighbor maintains the D7 Cat he uses on his alfalfa fields for laser leveling out of his service truck.

However, you'll need a pretty well equipped shop to handle large jobs like engine removal, tranny and rear end work.

 

[RobJ]

That's not completely true.. or at least.. the difference is almost nill.

I can mow my 10ac with my 70 hp tractor or my 95 hp tractor using a 10' mower. both take about 3 hours... (same trans).. both use about 5g of fuel.

I can also swap that 95 hp tractor to a 15' mower, and cut that 10ac, and drop time to about 2 hours... guess what.. still uses that same 5g of fuel.

That tells me that it takes about 5g of fuel to mow that 10ac. By your example, the 95 hp tractor would be wasting lots of fuel. in reality.. it's only making the hp it needs to run the load. There may be a small loss due to extra weight of the 95 hp tractor vs the 70.. but not much..

any more.. on a decent running diesel.. fuel usage will be based on time at load. equal loads on 2 diesels should run about the same fuel usage, give or take a lil.. even if one is a lil bigger or smaller.. so long as the load is within the range of both machines..

soundguy

You've told this story many times and in your case it may be true but in general it's hard to make a blanket statement.

By your example of "work done" and "time", if you put a 5' mower on your 95hp tractor it will take around 5 hours and still only use 5 gallons of fuel(amont of work and time). Same with a 70hp tractor. But I can put that 5' mower in my 26hp tractor and still burn 5 gallons of fuel. Or I could put that 15' batwing on a 150hp tractor and it would still only burn 5 gallons. To take it further my idling 26hp tractor will use the same fuel as a 50hp or 70hp tractor. No work is being done so they are the same.

Just a lot of variables to consider on this.

Rob

 

[RollingsFarms]

Look at lease returns. Many have full service records as they've been serviced at the dealership where leased. Local Deere dealer currently has a long list of 3 year lease returns that were used at Kentucky State Fairgrounds. Prices didn't look too bad.

For Sale At TractorHouse.com

Click on "FARM EQUIPMENT FOR SALE" Then go to page 4. It'll show tractors up to 99hp. A couple really good deals on demo/lease return 6430's.

This is the dealer I mentioned that has/had? the Fairgrounds lease tractors listed. I don't see them specifically mentioned on their webpage. They were listed in a newspaper add I read just recently. They even had a few 7000 series tractors, well above 100hp.

I realize this is way off the beaten path considering where you live, but I thought it might be a good source of price reference and a general idea of what a dealer may have on lease program returns.

one thing i would like to add about lease returns in my area is that the pto has never been used. at least that's what i was told by my dealer. generally the lease is for 100-300 hours. most of these tractors are leased by farms to pull wagons during peanut, cotton, and tobacco seasons. also many nurserys use them as well.

 

[Soundguy]

Just a lot of variables to consider on this.

Rob

That's why i related specific applications.. to reduce the variables.

To kick the can a bit further.. I used to mow that pasture with a 5' mower on a 30 hp tractor.. took nearly 6 hours.. and well.. just about 5g of fuel!

mind you this is mowing I'm using as a 'tangible' work. I'm sure if you kick over to other jobs, you can get skewing on fuel numbers depending ont he machine, where larger ones will start becoming more efficient.. IE.. using a 16" plow.. most 30hp and lower machines will pull only a single bottom.. start moving up in hp and a mchain that will pull 4-5 bottoms at a good clip may spank the single bottom so much that fuel and time savings becomes quite tangible...

soundguy

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

That's why i related specific applications.. to reduce the variables.

To kick the can a bit further.. I used to mow that pasture with a 5' mower on a 30 hp tractor.. took nearly 6 hours.. and well.. just about 5g of fuel!

mind you this is mowing I'm using as a 'tangible' work. I'm sure if you kick over to other jobs, you can get skewing on fuel numbers depending ont he machine, where larger ones will start becoming more efficient.. IE.. using a 16" plow.. most 30hp and lower machines will pull only a single bottom.. start moving up in hp and a mchain that will pull 4-5 bottoms at a good clip may spank the single bottom so much that fuel and time savings becomes quite tangible...

soundguy

soundguy

Just keep in mind these "rules of thumb" are VERY inconsistant. Example; My MF150 pulls a 2X14 plow @ 5mph. It'll plow 1.4 acres per hour on less than 1 gallon of fuel. (rated @ 38hp, actually dynos 47) My 2440 Deere will pull 3X16 @ 5 mph. It'll plow 2.4 acres per hour and use almost 3 gallons per hour. (rated @ 61 hp, dynos 64) In this case, the SMALLER tractor with SMALLER engine pulling the SMALLER plow is quite a bit more economical and effecient. The only real advantage the larger tractor has is total acres in a days work.

Certain brands, certain engines are simply more economical to operate. The Perkins AD3-152 held Nebraska test records for fuel economy for quite a few years, in particular, the combo of the AD3-152 in the MF150 chassis. Deere's of older vintage never were known for being fuel mizers. The 219 4-cylinder in the 2440 is quite thirsty. (It burns more fuel per hour just idling around than the Massey does under full load)

 

[Soundguy]

Just keep in mind these "rules of thumb" are VERY inconsistant. Example; My MF150 pulls a 2X14 plow @ 5mph. It'll plow 1.4 acres per hour on less than 1 gallon of fuel. (rated @ 38hp, actually dynos 47) My 2440 Deere will pull 3X16 @ 5 mph. It'll plow 2.4 acres per hour and use almost 3 gallons per hour. (rated @ 61 hp, dynos 64) In this case, the SMALLER tractor with SMALLER engine pulling the SMALLER plow is quite a bit more economical and effecient. The only real advantage the larger tractor has is total acres in a days work.

Certain brands, certain engines are simply more economical to operate. The Perkins AD3-152 held Nebraska test records for fuel economy for quite a few years, in particular, the combo of the AD3-152 in the MF150 chassis. Deere's of older vintage never were known for being fuel mizers. The 219 4-cylinder in the 2440 is quite thirsty. (It burns more fuel per hour just idling around than the Massey does under full load)

I hear ya.

I have a deere 2240 at work that I occasionally use to run a quick-tach front mounted sweeper to broom the parking lot... and that sucker drinks diesel. I believe she is about 50 hp and I honestly feel she gets worse economy than my 70hp ford 5000.

No other complaints about the tractor though. I usually mow on that one or an 80hp case if I am knocking stuff down for work.. and I like the deer better ( probably cuz they have a 6' mower on it.. and the case is pulling a single spindle 7'er that beats you to death.. )

I just got done putting new blades on that 7'er...ironically was cheaper to switch to a new brand and change the stump jumper out as the old one had hit one was oval and had hit one too many car rims or stumps on the roadsides..... vs going back with the original equipmetn. can't remember name.. farm king? or farm boss??

soundguy

soundguy

 

[RobJ]

That's why i related specific applications.. to reduce the variables.

This doesn't seem to be very specific. Looks pretty general.

any more.. on a decent running diesel.. fuel usage will be based on time at load. equal loads on 2 diesels should run about the same fuel usage, give or take a lil.. even if one is a lil bigger or smaller.. so long as the load is within the range of both machines..

 

[Soundguy]

When i said specific applications, I used mowing as my 'specific' application. Even said so that different applications may skew the numbers one way or the other. ( post # 22 I think? )

Farmwithjunk pointed out that make/model will / can also skew the numbers due to the effecience or inneficience of a specific machine in question, as compaired to other machines.. etc.. the deer/MF comparison.. etc. )

too many variables to make a straight across the board vauge declaration covering all makes / models and all applications. best we can do is try to match up similar machines and applications to get a rough idea of fuel usage vs economy vs time for said application.. after that it's smoke making time and seeing if the math pans out.

soundguy

 

[slowzuki]

The old closed centre hydraulics Deere's don't count. They're burning about 10-15 hp always just pushing fluid against the relief valve. On a small tractor that is a huge fuel hit.

Modern closed centres are a lot smarter, they have a hydrostatic pump that cuts the volume back to nothing instead of blasting the full discharge through the relief.

 

[Soundguy]

some have pilot operated hyds as well..

soundguy

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Isn't amazing how things have changed. A Farmall H when it was new was considered a 160acre farm tractor. Now we need (or think we need) 150-200hp to do the same thing. I'm sure there are countless studies out there about whats the right HP per acre into today's world. I wouldn't hesitate to farm 75-100 acres with my JD5400. Sure it would be slower with smaller implements but maybe profits would be bigger with less tractor?

The didn't have the dinged ole internet, email and TV hogging up their day.