12 acres tractor sizing

   / 12 acres tractor sizing
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'd like to response to some comments to show you my line of thinking and get some feedback on how sane I am. But I do realize internet forums are just another way to rationalize insanity :)

Larger Machine: the higher cost will yield your chores get down in less time.

For me the time isn't an issue. I'm an avid outdoors person and the idea with the property was to spend some quality time outside... so in terms of hp saving a few hours here and there, not a big deal.

For the once in a lifetime/infrequent needs find an alternative i.e. rent, hire, etc.

Okay, this is something that may not work with my vision for the property. Buried in all of this brush are some decent oak, black walnut and hickory saplings (and small trees) that I would like to rescue. My fear is that I won't be able to hire someone to do the job so selectively. But based on some of the comments in this thread, maybe yanking with chain using a smaller tractor might work. Or a backhoe, although I don't foresee much future use for the backhoe (small pond maybe?).

The only downside of a bigger machine is manuverability

Which again, with the type of selective clearing I'd like to do might become a big deal.

Since you will be doing a fair amount of finish mowing

For the moment, I have a 11hp Craftsman lawn tractor on that duty. But you're right, when that breaks may a 3pt or MMM makes sense.

A 35hp machine, for instance.. should spin a 5' rotary mower

This is what I'm hung up on. All the glossy brochures I have indicate that 35 PTO hp is require to turn a "medium" grade bush hog. As I said, time isn't a huge factor, with a standard duty would it just take longer or will I not be able to eat the stuff?

running a steel cable around them like a lassoo

This might work. The back where its really bad is a little swampy, so traction might be an issue.... I will not be getting Ag tires, so the added weight of a large tractor may help.

That 8-11 pto hp is huge. It's the difference between taking slow half width passes in thick wet grass or medium speed full width passes.

Again, this is my concern. I'd rather not run the machine sucking air especially since my brush is a lot worse than wet grass (or maybe I'm underestimating wet grass :)).

If it is your first tractor - HST is just about mandatory.

Well, first home tractor, I did state park maintenance for a year but ran some very large equipment (outside of small farm scope). As far as the HST, something inside me wants to yell -- well then it's half a tractor. I dunno, something "tractory" about the old manual transmissions :) Also, it opens up the L4400 as an economical option. The HST time savings isn't a huge deal, but the upgrades going to a grand L around the 3pt hitch might be. I am going to attempt to clear snow with this tractor, thats about the only thing keeping me on the HST Kool-aid.

Are you talking about the Saucon Valley Hellertown?

Thats the one. Being born and raised in Delaware county, the development isn't anywhere near as bad. Everyone on the street has some decent land, we're still in a pretty rural chunk. Nice tax incentives not to subdivide... doesn't seem like the neighbors are in a rush to do so either. :)

Here's my thinking now... If the B7800 was 35hp I think I won't still be thinking about things. But a 30hp with HST only gets 22hp out the back, which I have serious concerns about running a rotary mower through thick stuff. I think I'm leaning toward a L4400, or if I go for the big bucks, a JD3720 since I like the JD3720 over the L4240 (roughly same price but small size due to the turbocharging).

Again, thanks guys!
Jeff
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #22  
Jeff - I believe a 30hp tractor would plenty for what you are wanting to do. However there are much more knowledgeable people on this site than me. I have 18 acres with about 2.5 cleared, the rest woods, and I run a Kubota B3030HSDC. I am super happy with it and am amazed at the power it has.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #23  
john_bud said:
Get a tractor in the 30-35 engine hp range. I wouldn't get one in the "B" series, as they won't have the loader lift or BH potential one from the "L" or Grand L series will have.

john_bud I take offense to that!! :D
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #24  
JLudwig said:
Hello everyone, the forums here are very helpful. I've just moved onto a property with 12 acres, 3 or so wooded, 3 manicure cut, and the rest overrun with brush (mostly multiflora rose, honeysuckle and sumac trees). The fields are in pretty bad shape, some of the rose bushes are 8-10 ft tall. I can't even get to my property lines in some locations. I am interested in keeping the fields clear and am confused as to what size tractor I would need to accomplish this.

Of the 4 local dealers, 2 suggested a 30-35hp tractor would suffice, while the other two suggested 45hp would be needed to spin a decent medium duty rotary mower that could handle the brush I have - that is, the light duty 1" rotary cutter the smaller tractors can power would choke on the stuff. Two of my hobby farming friends also think the larger tractor would be better, but it seems a little overkill to me for only 12 acres?

If I choose a smaller tractor, the Kubota B7800/B3030 looks good, for the larger I was considering a JD3720 or a Kubota L4400/L4240. My local green and orange colored dealers seemed to be the best, so I'd like to stick with those.

Thanks!
Jeff

35 hp should be fine. It will probably have about 28 hp PTO The smaller tractor will free up cash for implements. 28 hp pto should run a 6' in brush or a 5' in heavy grass.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #25  
JLudwig:

Welcome to TBN :D! I agree with Soundguy (as usual :)) as to contracting out a one-time shot with a large tractor to take care of your overrun field (Then you can get by with a smaller and cheaper tractor and still meet your needs, and be able to afford more attachments :cool:.). You did not mention how you wanted to take care of your lawn. A larger heavier tractor with R-1's would tear up your lawn somewhat especially when it is wet if you plan to use it for mowing your lawn. It would be helpful to the readership if you could provide us with additional information about your terrain (slope, obstacles, etc.) as well as your short term and long term projects. I agree with john bud (as usual :)) as to getting a tractor with HST especially if you intend to do a lot of FEL work. I also highly recommend 4WD/MFWD especially if you go with a "smaller" tractor. I maintain 12.5 A's with my tractor without difficulty and got by with an even smaller tractor in the past. There are a few and only a few times I wish that I had a larger tractor, but I always get the task accomplished with what I have. I might add that the larger the tractor the larger and more expensive the attachments :(. For ground engaging tasks I would recommend a heavier, larger tractor, for mowing and less demanding tasks a lighter tractor. I would recommend weighted tires if going with R-1's and R-4's for stability, FEL work, and ground engaging attachments especially if you have to deal with mud. There has been huge and long winded debates (to which I will often contribute) :eek: as to the relative merits of tires and every conceivable attachment known for tractors. I will warn you that TBN'ers love to spend everyone's money and there are many, many HP junkies in TBNland :rolleyes:. Good luck on your research and pending tractor acquisition, and keep the posts coming- Jay
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #26  
john_bud said:
Don't feel too bad, I'm sure you will be able to "get by" with your 3940. ;-) I use a GL3410 HST and have 294.6 acres. However, 280 of that is tree farm and smaller is better for most things I do. But, if you want to swap your 3940 for my 3410, I could be talked around. After all, it's used on more acres....

jb

Well John................. In all fairness:D I rent out 35 acres so I only maintain 10 acres and my tree maintenance can only be done with a 48" hog so I do that with the B7500. I bought this tractor mainly for the FEL, forks, and snowblower. My 5 acres of deer plot and maintaining the ditches on the farm are the main ag duties.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #27  
teeravis1 said:
john_bud I take offense to that!! :D


None intended! :D

(I do love seeing "The Man's Prayer" from the Red Green show)


KevinJ - The space between trees sure does dictate the size tractor you can use! I've got 10 acres of white pine that have to be thinned out, and they were planted too close. Now the only options are chain saw or taking out 2 rows, skipping 4 - repeat. I'm getting too old for that much saw work, especially in close quarters. Too bad the processors are so dern wide!

JLudwig - I run a medium duty 60" cutter (woods brushbull 600). I have only 27.5 PTO in the Kubota L3410 HST, but it does fine. Partly / mostly due to the massive stump jumper that is 3x the size of what you will find in a standard duty cutter. Inertia is my friend, once up to speed!


jb
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #28  
JLudwig said:
Here's my thinking now... If the B7800 was 35hp I think I won't still be thinking about things. But a 30hp with HST only gets 22hp out the back, which I have serious concerns about running a rotary mower through thick stuff. I think I'm leaning toward a L4400, or if I go for the big bucks, a JD3720 since I like the JD3720 over the L4240 (roughly same price but small size due to the turbocharging).

Again, thanks guys!
Jeff

Bah! :) Go read my profile, then go see some pictures on this web site of my B in action - hogging. I hogged through some stuff that was a little under the ROPS.

Waist high!

I am telling you, if you wack at it with frequency, you'll be looking for a finishing mower sooner. And the B pulled a six footer with no issues on hills.

-Mike Z.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #29  
riptides said:
Bah! :) Go read my profile, then go see some pictures on this web site of my B in action - hogging. I hogged through some stuff that was a little under the ROPS.

Waist high!

I am telling you, if you wack at it with frequency, you'll be looking for a finishing mower sooner. And the B pulled a six footer with no issues on hills.

-Mike Z.


Interesting. In a prior note you stated that was a 6' medium duty cutter. It looks on my screen like a Woods BrushBull 60. If my screen is showing it correctly. That would make it a 5' wide (60 inches) and a light duty cutter. The hundred series is medum duty and the thousand series is heavy duty. The BB60 weighs in at a nice 554 pounds. Pretty good for a "light duty" machine! But the BB720 weighs in at 1140 pounds and with safety chains it is just about 1300 pounds. I don't think it is a good match to a B7800 that weighs 1800 pounds....

Still - that was a jungle of a field. Good job.

jb
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #30  
john_bud said:
Interesting. In a prior note you stated that was a 6' medium duty cutter. It looks on my screen like a Woods BrushBull 60. If my screen is showing it correctly. That would make it a 5' wide (60 inches) and a light duty cutter. The hundred series is medum duty and the thousand series is heavy duty. The BB60 weighs in at a nice 554 pounds. Pretty good for a "light duty" machine! But the BB720 weighs in at 1140 pounds and with safety chains it is just about 1300 pounds. I don't think it is a good match to a B7800 that weighs 1800 pounds....

Still - that was a jungle of a field. Good job.

jb

Yep. Made a mistake, had it in the latter reply too..... since I pull the five foot hog, the six foot rfm, and the six foot rake, I get them confused.

I am only pulling the five foot hog now on pastures. It looks "lawnish". That cutter has done me well. I don't think another foot or more power would make a difference, in MY situation. I like being outside.

But I am trying to size up to an M, since I gave up the 11 acre parcel to which I sized my B originally. The B is holding its own on the farm, but realistically I need a MUCH bigger machine now.

Any chance you can try one?

-Mike Z.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #31  
Just a thought if you need 20 hp for a job and you have a 45hp machine then you can throttle back. If you need 45hp for a job and have a 20 hp machine you can just sit on the porch and watch the guy you hired do it for you.


Just a thought

I love my L4400 but wish I had gone a little bigger. As with most people you can never have enough money or a big enough tractor.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #32  
JLudwig said:
This is what I'm hung up on. All the glossy brochures I have indicate that 35 PTO hp is require to turn a "medium" grade bush hog. As I said, time isn't a huge factor, with a standard duty would it just take longer or will I not be able to eat the stuff?Jeff

I used to own a NH 1920.. that was a 33 eng/30 pto hp machine.. I ran a 5' kk hog thru anything the front axle would climb over.. I frequently found myself mowing in weeds that were 1-2' over the rops height.

My dealer told me that the machine would spin a 5' mower 'thru anything' and a 6' mower thru most stuff.

I -NEVER- found anything that 30pto hp machine would not mow in 9th gear at pto speed. ( 12 forward gears.. / 4rev)

To say that you need 35 pto hp to spin a medium duty mower is.. well.. an overestimate.

My 1952 27 pto hp ford 8n runs that same mower thru almost as thick stuff... albiet in 1st gear ( of 4 )

Soundguy
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #33  
JLudwig:

Try not to hang yourself up on a number. It is my personal opinion that most if not all of the "data" contained in those glossy brochures is driven by Sales & Marketing Departments. I have had no difficulties using my medium duty 60" rotary cutter in my lower 7A's with my 23+ PTO HP. I have taken out quite a few softwood saplings >1.5" and without any problem. My avatar is of myself coming up from my lower field while mowing. Jay
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing
  • Thread Starter
#34  
Soundguy said:
My dealer told me that the machine would spin a 5' mower 'thru anything' and a 6' mower thru most stuff.

Great, thanks to everyone for their input, very helpful. I'm going to be taking a much closer look at the Kubota L3540 and JD3520 instead of the larger machines.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #35  
got a NH dealer around?

I think it would be worth sitting on a TC34 to compair and contrast its diffrences to the others.... as i found there to be quite a few.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing
  • Thread Starter
#36  
schmism said:
got a NH dealer around?

Not really that close. The green and orange folks are within 20 miles, there's a massive NH dealer in Tamaqua PA but its over an hour from my front door. If anyone here has a glowing review of them, I'd check them out, but otherwise I think its a little far.

There's a smaller dealer in NJ, I did visit them, but their prices didn't really add up for me. Basically, north Jersey is full of wealthy hobby farms, which seemed to me to drive the prices up. They were talking $24,500 for a TC34 with the FEL, whereas a similar sized (35hp) grand L or 20 series with FEL will run me near $21,000 in Pa. So price combined with location sold me on the other two and since I'm not doing a ton of FEL work, stuff like SuperSteer doesn't make a huge difference.

I also did look into the local Kioti dealer, but that shop had difficulty answering some basic questions for me. They were mechanics, not farmers, so not so hot on buying advice. But if I were more experienced, and just needed a good repair shop, I would definitely include them in the search. I've tried to remain as colorblind as possible throughout the decision making process.

Jeff
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #37  
I wanted to add one more data point to the discussion. My 15 acres is becoming 35 acres. Sometimes you don't see it coming and your neighbors approach you about buying their land. It's nice to not have to upgrade tractors. You may even find yourself renting/leasing additional pasture someday.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #38  
Greyfields said:
I wanted to add one more data point to the discussion. My 15 acres is becoming 35 acres. Sometimes you don't see it coming and your neighbors approach you about buying their land. It's nice to not have to upgrade tractors. You may even find yourself renting/leasing additional pasture someday.

ROTFL


My situation - exactly. But then how do you predict the future and satisfy the wants and needs of now.

:)

-Mike Z.
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #39  
JLudwig said:
Here's my thinking now... If the B7800 was 35hp I think I won't still be thinking about things. But a 30hp with HST only gets 22hp out the back, which I have serious concerns about running a rotary mower through thick stuff. I think I'm leaning toward a L4400, or if I go for the big bucks, a JD3720 since I like the JD3720 over the L4240 (roughly same price but small size due to the turbocharging).

So far so good. As for the HST thing, since you're demands seem generally gated by PTO power, I'd recommend against a HST drive. I have a L4200GST (glide-shift) tractor, and I think that the glide-shift option is best of all worlds. I rarely if ever use the manual clutch, although it's there if you want it, and there is no PTO power penalty like with a HST.

JayC
 
   / 12 acres tractor sizing #40  
JLudwig said:
I also did look into the local Kioti dealer, but that shop had difficulty answering some basic questions for me. They were mechanics, not farmers, so not so hot on buying advice. But if I were more experienced, and just needed a good repair shop, I would definitely include them in the search. I've tried to remain as colorblind as possible throughout the decision making process.

Jeff

I'm curious as to what basic farming questions the Kioti dealer couldn't answer for you? Just look at the variety of answers and advice you've received from this site already. Some folks will say go big, you just can't have enough hp while others tell you to stay small and save on diesel fuel. ;)
 

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