15% ethanol in gasoline passes.

[Duffster]

I'd find a mechanic, a real mechanic

Got one. He is one of the best.

This is kind of contradictory, he clearly admits a problem :confused2: The problem is the ethanol, you may want to ask him what about the gas makes it "junk"???

I was going to ask if you own a saw I quess I got my answer. I also use a stabilizer, own 2 stihl saws and from my understanding ethanol is a NO NO, or at the very least use a stabilizer. I do know of guys that have not used stabilizer and have regreted it.

He says the gas is the problem that any problems he see are universal between E10 and neat gas. I don't see what is contradictory. Surly a guy that works on 100's of saw a month is going to see the gauntlet of issues.

I have about a dozen Stihl small engines that have run on pretty much nothing but E10.

 

[Duffster]

The use of ethanol in our fuel will go down as one of the biggest scams in history. A month or so ago even Al Gore admitted ethanol is not economically viable, and that he had pushed it only because he needed farmer's votes in Iowa. When a box of corn flakes costs $5 you know something isn't right...

Here's an article from the Energy Collective:

Al Gore Says Supporting Corn Ethanol Was a Mistake | The Energy Collective

Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore has said he made a mistake promoting first generation corn ethanol during his presidential campaign in 2000.

Gore says he was more concerned with garnering votes from farmers in Tennessee and Iowa than with what was best for the environment. A clean energy enthusiast, Gore says corn ethanol is not a sustainable alternative to fossil fuels. The process of converting corn into ethanol is highly energy intensive and also requires using a food crop for fuel.

The food-versus-fuel debate is nothing new. However, it really exploded when the United States experiences record food prices. The biofuel industry was blamed for this. This year 41% of the United States' corn crop, representing 15% of all corn produced on the planet will be converted into ethanol.

Corn ethanol received US$7.7 billion in subsidies from the U.S. government last year. These subsidies are up for renewal soon, and the debate has already become heated. Growth Energy, an organization representing ethanol producers in the United States, responded to Gore's comments with this statement: "The contributions of first generation ethanol to our nation's economy, environment and energy production are not a mistake, but a success story."

Gore contends corn ethanol is negatively impacting food prices and that there are better biofuel solutions to be developed and supported: "I think second and third generation [biofuels] that don't compete with food prices will play an increasing role, certainly with aviation fuels."

Well if Al Gore said than it must be true. :laughing:

What do you suppose the value of the corn in a box of flakes is?

 

[Kep]

Well if Al Gore said than it must be true. :laughing:

What do you suppose the value of the corn in a box of flakes is?

About $.30

 

[Dogballs]

I don't believe much of what Al Gore says, but he's clearly correct in saying that ethanol is a mistake.

Do you financially benefit from the 7.7 billion in taxpayer funded subsidies? If not I don't see how you could argue in favor of ethanol. Food prices nationwide are skyrocketing as 40% of our nation's corn goes into ethanol, while the effect on greenhouse gas emissions from 10% (soon to be 15%) ethanol use is negligible. And it takes almost as much fuel to produce ethanol as the use of ethanol saves.

Aside from the financial and economic scam it's causing problems for everyone who owns boats, lawnmowers, and any other small engine.

 

[Gizmo2]

Let's see...
We pay for the study so we can pay more for gas with less MPG, no benefits to the payee or emissions.
I hope I live long enough to see the American people say NO to the government on a number of issues.

 

[radioman]

i do alot of bsiness with the dairy farming community. These folks are having a hard time with grain prices, geez, i wonder why. Not a good idea to burn our food for fuel.

I see what you are saying. But right now the demand is not HIGH. if there is more demand for corn, and if more people start getting involved growing corn because it can be profitable, then prices will go down with supply going up with demand. Also whats this garbage about burn our food for fuel. its not sweet corn we are growing for ethanol- its field corn. If local stores need corn, more of us can grow corn for them for extra cash. I know for a fact my local grocery store SUPPORTS the small farmers.

On the other hand I read in the newspaper a few weeks ago saying we literally reduced the dependence on oil import. If making the ethanol production goes up, demand will be there and people like us might start growing corn for extra cash. I know I would.

 

[Jstpssng]

Got one. He is one of the best.





He says the gas is the problem that any problems he see are universal between E10 and neat gas. I don't see what is contradictory. Surly a guy that works on 100's of saw a month is going to see the gauntlet of issues.

I have about a dozen Stihl small engines that have run on pretty much nothing but E10.

Funny, your guy is the only small engine mechanic I've ever heard of who says that. Long before I'd ever heard of E-10 my mechanics were saying not to put ethanol dri-gas in small engines. A normal snowsled service there now includes draining the tank, vacuuming any residual out, blowing out the lines, and complete tear down of the carburetors. They said they are finding that E-10 leaves a coating around the jets, which leans them out and causes piston failure.

I agree that improper storage is part of the problem. However my sled is in the back of the truck from first major snowfall to when it melts; I don't know when I'll need it week to week, or sometimes even when I leave home in the AM. To drive 30 miles to the nearest gas pump because I need to spend half a day in the woods is ludicrous.
It could be that an additive in your Stihl oil is helping you avoid problems. As I've stated in the past, any additive should be part of the blending process: not post consumer.

Actually I run Stihl oil also, as that's my saw dealers main brand. Even he recommends only mixing small batches though. Anything over 3 weeks old goes into my burn pan; a waste, but still cheaper than pistons.

 

[Gizmo2]

I see what you are saying. But right now the demand is not HIGH. if there is more demand for corn, and if more people start getting involved growing corn because it can be profitable, then prices will go down with supply going up with demand. Also whats this garbage about burn our food for fuel. its not sweet corn we are growing for ethanol- its field corn. If local stores need corn, more of us can grow corn for them for extra cash. I know for a fact my local grocery store SUPPORTS the small farmers.

On the other hand I read in the newspaper a few weeks ago saying we literally reduced the dependence on oil import. If making the ethanol production goes up, demand will be there and people like us might start growing corn for extra cash. I know I would.

And just maybe farmers are now growing field corn instead of sweet corn. Just sayin!

 

[dodge man]

For anybody just reading this post, go back and read Brokenot's thread on page 3, he seems to know what he is talking about.

I'm guilty of not storing small engines in the proper manner. Its so easy to forget to add stabil, run the thing dry, dump the old fuel out when you break it out of storage etc. If I read his post, it has more to do with the ways things are stored than the fuel.

Ethanol has its disadvantages. A lot of "green" fuel ideas, power, electricity ideas don't pay off. Electric cars, wind power, solar power, ethanol, bio diesel. Most of these things are viable because of tax breaks and other government incentives. Without these incentives, things often wouldn't move forward. Would cars pollute less, be safer, get better gas mileage if the government didn't force these things on the car makers? Its the same thing for fuels. Everyone needs to realize, and the government does, something could happen as a world wide event that could mean our only available source of fuel comes within our borders. If that happened, can you hear the people cry and scream "why didn't the government do something about this ahead of time". Well our government has looked ahead and thats why some of these things are being done. My guess is some of this has to do with the military. They probably think all the way back to world war 2 and think of the shortages, how hard it was to get raw materials from other countries. Sometimes we may not like what our country forces on us, sometimes we may not agree with it, but sometimes they are looking out for our best interest. All that said, I'm still not a fan of the E15 idea.

I now stand down from my soapbox.

 

[Ken45101]

I see what you are saying. But right now the demand is not HIGH. if there is more demand for corn, and if more people start getting involved growing corn because it can be profitable, then prices will go down with supply going up with demand. Also whats this garbage about burn our food for fuel. its not sweet corn we are growing for ethanol- its field corn. If local stores need corn, more of us can grow corn for them for extra cash. I know for a fact my local grocery store SUPPORTS the small farmers.

On the other hand I read in the newspaper a few weeks ago saying we literally reduced the dependence on oil import. If making the ethanol production goes up, demand will be there and people like us might start growing corn for extra cash. I know I would.

Field corn gets fed to animals for feed. We eat the animals. Same thing, it's all food stocks, just an intermediate step.

What reduced the dependence on foreign oil is the recession and less demand for oil. NOT ethanol. It saves very little if any foreign oil. With Obama throttling U.S. oil production, demand for foreign oil will go up as well as prices.

Ken