1715 Clutch Replacement

[Dataway]

So the 1715 is split and I'm trying to decide what clutch components to replace. I split it because the throw-out bearing is trashed ... replaced it about 7 years ago too. Lots of moisture getting into the case, apparently through the shift lever opening. The pressure plate fingers look like they have taken some abuse, wanting some opinions on whether that needs to be replaced. Clutch works fine for the most part except the terrible noises

Questions are, based on the photos below ...

1. Is the old bearing installed properly (don't think I used a NH parts, this time I bought a genuine NH part)

2. Does the pressure plate need replacing (assume I can't replace the finger separately)

3. Since I have it apart should I replace everything (bearing, pressure plate, clutch plate)

4. Shifter is very sloppy .... any way to firm that up ( did the clips come out of the shifter? I don't see them on a parts diagram)

5. Is it ok for me to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the case ... say 1/4"

Thanks

 

[JC-jetro]

Good morning, Here is my 2 cents,

1. Is the old bearing installed properly (don't think I used a NH parts, this time I bought a genuine NH part),
Are you talking Throw-out or the pilot bearing, I think if you have the tractor split it behooves you to replace. I have a link below that has all the what you need for $175 from Fleabay. they both go in just one particular way only. Pilot need to be right size, (I.E, correct ID or OD Dia) and installed flush and square to the hole. Throw out need to be on the shaft sliding easily and smoothly with spring attached correctly to withdraw it to normal position.

2. Does the pressure plate need replacing (assume I can't replace the finger separately)
I certainly would and would not even attempt messing with the fingers or resurface. I only consider re-use if I cannot source parts at all.refer to Ebay link below.

3. Since I have it apart should I replace everything (bearing, pressure plate, clutch plate)
Yes, positively affirmative, specially if you get a kit.

4. Shifter is very sloppy .... any way to firm that up ( did the clips come out of the shifter? I don't see them on a parts diagram)
That has nothing to do with the clutch replacement and has to do with detent ball and spring in your transmission. That work can be done with the tractor split or not
5. Is it ok for me to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the case ... say 1/4"
That is what I have on my Kubota , a 1/4" hole and a spring loaded or gravity assisted check valve. Occasionally I push it in for removal of condensate if any or see if transmission or engine seal is leaking oil in the tranny. If you have an rubber covered inspection hand hole on the side of transmission you can use that and shop vac the bottom if you get condensation. I have not done it but see no harm in it as long as it is only 1/4" or even 1/8. You can stick a nail from bottom if it plugs up with junk to open drain passage.

JC,

Clutch Kit Ford 17 132 162 151 152 171 15 1715 131 New Holland TC29 | eBay

 

[Dataway]

Thank you for the answers. Yes, I was talking about the throw-out (release) bearing.

The "clips" I mentioned .... (no picture) ... found where they came from, out of the pressure plate, on the outside of the fingers ... probably fell out because the fingers are worn so much.

Are the discount pressure plates as good as the NH parts .... they look identical ... and I have a feeling NH never made the original pressure plates anyway.

I was thinking about using a genuine NH clutch disk ... noticed the designed has changed a few times and the original part number superseded a few times. Maybe they were addressing how bad they like to seize up when not in use.

I asked about the shifter slop because I noticed inside the case that all the slop is in the shifter itself, between the ball at the bottom end of the lever and the cups that attached to the rods. Looks like there is an adjustment screw to draw the cups closer together to compensate for wear and get rid of some of the side to side slop ... the engagement of the shifter actually feels pretty good.

I've got a plug covered inspection hole on both sides of the case ... but both sides covered up by the FEL mount and backhoe support frame brackets when the tractor is assembled. Wish those had been open, I could have squirted some lube on the release bearing.

I'll probably go ahead and drill a drain hole, and make a boot or something to install at the base of the shift lever ... the way it is now water can freely run down the shift lever and be channeled directly into the clutch case. Very surprised it has no boot from the factory ... but then it is a "15" model, kind of the red headed step child of the series.

Last question .... does the release bearing just get its as delivered lube? It's got pretty tight clearances ... don't see a way to get much grease into it. Honestly .... with it's close proximity to the clutch I don't even know if it's supposed to be lubed in any way.

 

[Dataway]

Just ordered one of the ebay kits .... but will be using NH release bearing and pilot bearing.

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes,release bearing is permanently sealed so it cannot be regressed and packed. I think most manufacturer's source some part from other vendors. sometimes I find the aftermarket is better than oem for certain parts. I personally would not mix and match, I would use the clutch disk that comes with the package. Take picture and identify the flop area of the shifter and the cup and post. Like you said just the sealed bearing need grease and you don't want any lube and other contaminants in the are of flywheel , clutch disk or pressure plate. Once , I ended up changing the clutch for one of my kid's car because of transmission main shaft seal leaked and ended up soaking the clutch mechanism. Good luck.

JC,

 

[fried1765]

So the 1715 is split and I'm trying to decide what clutch components to replace. I split it because the throw-out bearing is trashed ... replaced it about 7 years ago too. Lots of moisture getting into the case, apparently through the shift lever opening. The pressure plate fingers look like they have taken some abuse, wanting some opinions on whether that needs to be replaced. Clutch works fine for the most part except the terrible noises

Questions are, based on the photos below ...

1. Is the old bearing installed properly (don't think I used a NH parts, this time I bought a genuine NH part)

2. Does the pressure plate need replacing (assume I can't replace the finger separately)

3. Since I have it apart should I replace everything (bearing, pressure plate, clutch plate)

4. Shifter is very sloppy .... any way to firm that up ( did the clips come out of the shifter? I don't see them on a parts diagram)

5. Is it ok for me to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the case ... say 1/4"

Thanks

I have the bigger brother to your 1715...a 1920.
It has a factory drilled hole in the case bottom, with a large cotter pin that is spread inside the case.
The cotter pin is apparently used to clean the hole, by hand turning the head if need be.
I would recommend using a large cotter pin, but in a VERY sloppy fit size.
You should not cover the hole with anything.
You are creating a drain that should be left open, to allow any possible liquid to drain from your case.

 

[Dataway]

You know ... right on the bottom of the clutch case in the lowest point is a cast in boss .... that looks for all the world like a drain plug hole that was never drilled.

Cotter pin sounds like a good idea ... just give it a twirl to clean out the hole.

 

[CoyPatton]

Good morning, Here is my 2 cents,

1. Is the old bearing installed properly (don't think I used a NH parts, this time I bought a genuine NH part),
Are you talking Throw-out or the pilot bearing, I think if you have the tractor split it behooves you to replace. I have a link below that has all the what you need for $175 from Fleabay. they both go in just one particular way only. Pilot need to be right size, (I.E, correct ID or OD Dia) and installed flush and square to the hole. Throw out need to be on the shaft sliding easily and smoothly with spring attached correctly to withdraw it to normal position.

2. Does the pressure plate need replacing (assume I can't replace the finger separately)
I certainly would and would not even attempt messing with the fingers or resurface. I only consider re-use if I cannot source parts at all.refer to Ebay link below.

3. Since I have it apart should I replace everything (bearing, pressure plate, clutch plate)
Yes, positively affirmative, specially if you get a kit.

4. Shifter is very sloppy .... any way to firm that up ( did the clips come out of the shifter? I don't see them on a parts diagram)
That has nothing to do with the clutch replacement and has to do with detent ball and spring in your transmission. That work can be done with the tractor split or not
5. Is it ok for me to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the case ... say 1/4"
That is what I have on my Kubota , a 1/4" hole and a spring loaded or gravity assisted check valve. Occasionally I push it in for removal of condensate if any or see if transmission or engine seal is leaking oil in the tranny. If you have an rubber covered inspection hand hole on the side of transmission you can use that and shop vac the bottom if you get condensation. I have not done it but see no harm in it as long as it is only 1/4" or even 1/8. You can stick a nail from bottom if it plugs up with junk to open drain passage.

JC,

Clutch Kit Ford 17 132 162 151 152 171 15 1715 131 New Holland TC29 | eBay

 

[Dataway]

Found the shifter problem .... split pin that holds the lever tension spring in place was worn away.

 

[JC-jetro]

Found the shifter problem .... split pin that holds the lever tension spring in place was worn away.

You mean the pin on this pic?

 

[Dataway]

Yep, that's the one ... different shifter of course ... but exact same setup.

I noticed the small ball on the very end of the lever looks squared off a bit on mine ... can't tell if it's wear, or the way it was made. If it's wear I could correct it by adding some weld metal and remachining ... but don't want to do that if it's supposed to be squared off a bit .... I'll take a picture today.

 

[JC-jetro]

Yep, that's the one ... different shifter of course ... but exact same setup.

I noticed the small ball on the very end of the lever looks squared off a bit on mine ... can't tell if it's wear, or the way it was made. If it's wear I could correct it by adding some weld metal and remachining ... but don't want to do that if it's supposed to be squared off a bit .... I'll take a picture today.

yes, it is most likely wear. They need to be as round as possible to slide easier on the shift bosses, the square grey and red casting that move forward and backward to shift gears. Look at the pic below.

JC,

 

[Dataway]

Interesting ... on a 1720 those components are attached to rods inside the clutch case rather than directly into the gear box (top loader). But, the "cups" that interact with the end of the shift lever are the same shape/arrangement.

As you can see ... mine is a bit rough from water running down the shift lever for many years. I can easily add some weld metal and round them back up again. Should last a bit better if I add some kind of boot to keep the weather out and grease it up good. Still working on removing some of the parts in the clutch case that haven't been touched in 30 years.

Also a photo of a genuine NH release bearing compared to no-name aftermarket ... slightly different design that the old no-name, noticeably better quality .. and with actual brand (Japanese) and bearing number on it.

 

[JC-jetro]

I think it probably has enough roundness to the ball to do it's thing. I'll be afraid changing the metallurgy of the tip and not being able to get a good weld on it. I think those rods are heat treated also. It might be difficult to source the part if the weld screws up. I would probably clean all the rust, wipe it with clean and oil it up and test it to see how it shifts. I think it will be better with the new cutter pin to keep the spring tension on. I would make or take a rubber boot if you can take off the shifter stick and slide it down to keep the water away.

 

[Dataway]

Yep, I was worried that weld metal would be too much harder than the "sockets" the lever goes into and wear them out quickly. In operation, yes it was sloppy because of the spring ... but it did still shift well ... it was no particular problem finding a gear.

BTW, is there any area that needs to be greased/lubricated when installing a new clutch? I packed the pilot bearing on the inside (clutch side is sealed, engine side is open), I will grease where the clutch fork contacts the release bearing housing, and the shaft the housing slides on. How about where the pressure plate fingers contact the release bearing?

 

[Dataway]

As a final note .... tractor is back together, clutch is absolutely silent, a bit harsh at the moment but I assume that should ease up with use. Now doing sandblasting painting and new decals while I have things apart.

 

[JC-jetro]

Awsome, clutch disk, pressure plate and flywheel need to work together to smooth things out and break in. it'll be fine

 

[Bedlam]

:thumbsup:

 

[Dataway]

Couple of pics of the old 1715 after the work. Did some buffing of the factory paint, some repainting of various other pieces, replaced the few affordable odds and ends from New Holland.

Still some more paint and repair to do ... and I have to cut apart the right rear wheel and weld on a new outer rim, and put on a new tire. Will probably have to wait till spring, not enough room to paint large parts inside the shop.

 

[JC-jetro]

it's about the right time she is getting some TLC:thumbsup: