1963 Ford 2000 electrical problem

[john357]

I have a 1963 Ford 2000 4-cyl. gas. it has been converted to 12 volt, one wire alternator. New battery, starters good, relay's good. I can't get power through the relay to the starter. I've even taken a jumper cable from the battery to bypass the relay and nothing happens. Really scratching my head on this one. When I turn on the switch I have power to three poles on the relay, pushing the starter button grounds it out as usual, so that should be good. But here is something that is quite confusing to me. When I turn the switch on and then turn on the light switch I loose all power going to the relay. The battery post is hot but the cable attached to it is not. I really don't know what is going on. Could this be a grounding problem or some kind of polarity issue? Would appreciate the help, thank you.

 

[LD1]

Is it a 3 or 4 wire relay?

Either one will have 2 large cables going to it. One coming from the battery, one going out to the starter. Verify with a volt meter that you have 12V at the relay coming FROM the battery.

Assuming its a 3-wire relay, you will have one small wire. This wire gets energized to close the contacts and allow high current to flow through the relay. BUT the relay has to be grounded. Usually grounded through its mount.

So apply 12v (can be with a jumper wire) to the relay. Do you hear it "click"? if you dont hear it click, check how its grounded.

Be careful doing this and it wouldnt hurt to unhook the battery cable feeding the relay. Because this is bypassing all the safety stuff and if the tractor is in gear it may still try to start.

 

[Soundguy]

He should ( I know.... I know. ) have a 4 wire relay. 2 big, one bat, one starter, 2 small, one key, one thumb button.

Loosing power with lamps on, and hot post at bat, but not on cable is classic poor connection issue.

OP, clean bat posts and cable ends, check for corrosion at cable to terminal, fo it yourself replacement ends are notorious for this.

Lastly, if your headlamps run thru your ignition switch, you may be overloading the switch and or its feed wire.

Consider running a good heavy new clean wire for the ignition switch feed, and run a separate wire to the lamp switch so that it is not going thru the ignition switch.

Ign switch should just sent power to the coil, and the start relay.

 

[john357]

4 post relay. Tested relay it clicks. I took off all the cables and shined them up. I have lights now! But now i'm only getting power to the "I" terminal and not the "s". So no crank.

 

[john357]

4 post. It clicks but still no crank.

 

[LD1]

I think that is your issue. You have the wrong starter relay/solenoid.

The 4-post relay with an I-terminal was a ford automotive thing. I may be wrong but not sure it was used on tractors. The I terminals was to power the ignition and NOT a ground terminal for the start push button.

You need a 4-wire relay where the 4th terminal is a ground to activate the relay and NOT an "I" terminal

 

[john357]

I think that is your issue. You have the wrong starter relay/solenoid.

The 4-post relay with an I-terminal was a ford automotive thing. I may be wrong but not sure it was used on tractors. The I terminals was to power the ignition and NOT a ground terminal for the start push button.

You need a 4-wire relay where the 4th terminal is a ground to activate the relay and NOT an "I" terminal

ok, I'll go to my local Ford dealership tomorrow and order one, probably take a few days to come in cause I know they won't have one in stock. Thanks

 

[LD1]

Is that indeed how you had it wired? With the start switch wired to the I terminal?

Those relays still ground through the base. Where is it mounted? If it's mounted where it has a good ground, I am surprised it's not trying to crank as soon as you apply power to the S terminal.

A local auto parts store should have 4-wire relays that will work. Just make sure the 4th post isn't an I terminal, rather a ground. Might not be labeled. Might have to read the little paper that comes in the box to confirm

 

[Soundguy]

Napa will have a 4 terminal isolated base relay

 

[Soundguy]

Ps, actually check the relay.. Is the coil between 1 small and base, or both small.

 

[john357]

Is that indeed how you had it wired? With the start switch wired to the I terminal?

Those relays still ground through the base. Where is it mounted? If it's mounted where it has a good ground, I am surprised it's not trying to crank as soon as you apply power to the S terminal.

A local auto parts store should have 4-wire relays that will work. Just make sure the 4th post isn't an I terminal, rather a ground. Might not be labeled. Might have to read the little paper that comes in the box to confirm

ok, so this is what I have. Brand new battery cables, good and tight. With key off I have power to the relay, I can also by-pass relay and get power to the starter, so I did have some connectivity issues. With key on I have power to the I terminal, but no power to the S terminal which goes to the starter button. I also noticed that I have no resistance between the S terminal and ground with my ohm meter. So maybe I have a bad or wrong relay?

 

[john357]

Is that indeed how you had it wired? With the start switch wired to the I terminal?

Those relays still ground through the base. Where is it mounted? If it's mounted where it has a good ground, I am surprised it's not trying to crank as soon as you apply power to the S terminal.

A local auto parts store should have 4-wire relays that will work. Just make sure the 4th post isn't an I terminal, rather a ground. Might not be labeled. Might have to read the little paper that comes in the box to confirm

I have power to the I terminal when key is turned on, no power to the S terminal which is connected to the starter button. I've noticed the S terminal has no resistance to ground with my ohm meter. Is this the wrong or bad relay?

 

[LD1]

Yes it's the wrong relay as I explained in post 6 a few days ago.

You are fortunate that you wired the key to I terminal and start button to s terminal. If you switched those two, and the relay is mounted on steel that is grounded, the starter would be cranking whenever you turned the key on.

You need a relay that has an isolated base. Meaning it doesn't ground through the base, rather through one of the small terminals. So while what you have "looks" like the 4-wire relay you need, it is functionally different.

As you have it now with s showing continuity to ground, that is correct with it wired how you have it.

The proper relay (not one with the I terminal) will have two small terminals. Those go to the coil to make the relay operate. One gets 12v, one gets ground.

When you turn the key on, it feeds 12v to one. When you push starter button, it gives a path to ground for the other.

 

[john357]

New cables and the correct 4 pole isolated base relay. It cranks as it should! Thanks guys.