1974 2000 series running problems

[Howard707]

Hello folks, I have a 3cyl gas and have tried for nearly 2 weeks to get it to run properly. Sometimes it would run like a top, then it started acting like it was starving for fuel. I had already replaced the carb earlier this year. It was still under warranty so I got a new one and installed it. There is no water/trash in the fuel. New distributor in May and was running like a top. I later replaced the fuel pump. Then I thought it may be the shaft that runs the fuel pump so I installed an electric fuel pump. It would run great at times but, then it would act like it was starving for fuel and at that time I could see fuel spitting out of the hole located beneath the where the air intake attached to it. ( When it acts as though it is starving for fuel, the governor will kick in and try to keep it running). If I try to speed the idle up, it will not take fuel either. I then thought that because when it would start mis-firing and sometimes back fire with fuel spitting out of the hole (underside of the air intake port), I thought that there was too much pressure from the electric fuel pump. I then hooked it up by gravity feed and it starts but, still does the same thing. I have done everything that I can think of and I have a shop manual and there is nothing that I can find that will help. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP OR REFER ME TO A MECHANIC THAT YOU MAY THINK CAN HELP ME OUT???? It is my only tractor and I am so far behind now that I can barely sleep at night!!!!

 

[Soundguy]

first thing you have to do is focus on the problem. You have to narrow it down to spark or fuel.

without doing that you are all over the road.

electrics are the easiest to verify.

make sure it fires on all 3, good blue / white spark on a high gap.. consistently. no missfireing or skips.

once you have elecgtrics verified good. move to fuel.

when it acts lean.. tug on choke. if it helps.. it is indeed starving for fuel.

( check tank tap! )

as for the fuel dripping out.. make sure you are not flooding it. e-fuel pump can probably be set from 1-4 psi and I would try 2.. just needs positive flow.. no fire hose....

as aprt of fuel. ensure the air cleaner is clean and open.

post back

 

[Howard707]

Hey Soundguy, we meet again. I just put new points, plugs, condenser wires and rotor button this week. The Cap came brand new with the distributor as well as the points and condenser I changed today. (Just to see if it would help). From fuel cap to carb it is clean as a whistle and today when I set it up to gravity feed, it flowed just fine and ran good. It runs like a top for a little while but then starts all this that I described. I thought that something was heating up and causing a problem. I even put a brand new coil on it last week. The problem is though, it can run like crap when cold or when it warms up. Sometimes it will just start running great as though it just came off the showroom floor and then in just a blink of an eye it begins to choke and will spit fuel. I have set and reset the factory fuel/air valve 1 and 1/2 turn out and it will run great (when it is running fine) but, even when I do not fiddle around with the valve it will start this sputtering and starving for fuel. The governor works when it starts to cut off but only enough to keep it running half way and sometimes it will shut off even when the governor is trying to kick in. I have replaced nearly every single component on the tractor possible on the exterior of the engine. Just out of curiosity, would a bad voltage regulator cause this problem? My thoughts are NO but??? I have a brand new one sitting in a box waiting to be installed. At that point there is nothing that would not be new other than the hydraulic pump

 

[Howard707]

Oh and yes the air cleaner and filter are clean as whistles and I have even slipped the filter out while trying to run it and still have same issue

 

[Soundguy]

the voltage regulator has no direct impact on the ignition. all it does is make the generator charge the battery.

that battery will run the ignition all day without the generator or regulator being operational.

question..

the 65+ series were 12v fromt he factory. the gassers used a 6v coil and a ball of resistor wire that ran to the coil.

if you repalced this with plain wire.. the 6v coil will overheat after a while.

if you go to a 12v coil.. you HAVE to get rid of the resistor wire.

 

[Howard707]

It was already set up to operate as a 12 volt negative ground system and the coil was replaced with 12 volt Ford coil. I replaced it last year because I had shorted it out and I replaced this newest one because I thought it may have been over-heating. It checked out OK, but I replaced it anyways. It ran fine for a long time until it just started acting up as I have described. I am lost now with no more thoughts of what could be causing this problem. I am simply perplexed and have ran out of thoughts on what I should try next. As you have read, I have replaced nearly everything. It ran fine (like a top) then all of a sudden it started this problem and it seems to be getting worse. I was unable to even keep it running well enough to get back to my house from the farm. (about a half block away.)

 

[Howard707]

Just to be sure though, this ball of resistor wire you are speaking of, would it be obvious (visible)? Right now the coil wire runs to the solenoid switch and to the distributor. No wire in between.

 

[Soundguy]

i think you may want to re-read my post VERY carefully.

the machie was manufactured as 12v negative ground YES..

it was provided with a 6v coil.

if you go buy a new coil from a NH dealer. it will be a 6v coil... really.

BECAUSE.. there is a ball of ressitor wire in the wire harness.

during starting, the resistor wire is bypassed at the solenoid.

trace your wireing......

i'm betting you have some wireing and coil issues!

 

[Howard707]

OK, Will do. Would I be able to just purchase a 6volt coil from an auto parts store that sells tractor parts? Even though the system is 12 volt, the 6 volt coil will work as it was manufactured if I am understanding you right?? Thank you for ALL of your help both past and present. Howard.
Have a great evening and a great holiday this week coming!!! I will post and let you know how things work out for me.

 

[Howard707]

Well I guess I should ask this. Will I have screwed up any wireing now that I have put a 12 volt coil in the system or will putting a 6 volter in fix my problem??? I have my fingers crossed for the latter!!!

 

[Soundguy]

ASSUMING you have the correct resistor wire on the tractor.. then a generic 6v coil like a napa IC8 is fine.

OR if you omit the resistor wire.. and go straight.. then a REAL 12v coil like a napa IC14SB is fine.

all depends on what is in your wire harness.....

 

[Soundguy]

Well I guess I should ask this. Will I have screwed up any wireing now that I have put a 12 volt coil in the system or will putting a 6 volter in fix my problem??? I have my fingers crossed for the latter!!!

IF you still have the resistor wire in there.. and you have a 12v coil in.. you will have weak spark.

that said.. the new holland coil for a gasser 3 cyl is going to be marked for use in a 12v system.. even thouh inside the palstic case.. its a 6v coil. reason is they know there is a resistor wire inthe harness.

 

[Howard707]

OK Thanks, I will check out my manual and trace the wireing harness. Again, thanks for everything, Howard

 

[Howard707]

Hey Soundguy, now I am confused. I have the shop manual with the diagrams. Yet I have no idea what I am looking for in the harness. There is one wire that comes from the coil that has a thickened part in it about 1 and 1/2 inches long it is manufactured into the wire and possibly may be a resistor that you are speaking of. Any help you can give to help me identify what I am looking for? I hate to sound so stupid but, I just don't have any idea how to identify this item (ball of resistor wire)

 

[Soundguy]

the original resistor wire was just that. a resistance wire.

I'd have to see what you have before hazarding a guess.

 

[Howard707]

Hey Soundguy, I do believe that the issue was fuel. First, the shaft that runs the new fuel pump was most likely wore out and not allowing the pump to pump a proper flow. Second, when I put the electric fuel pump on, it was too large and pumped way more that the specs called for. I hooked it up as gravity fed and started it and it ran good for a minute or two and then started its crud again. Within a few minutes it cut off and I could not start it again. This is AFTER I installed the new 6 volt coil as suggested. Then like an idiot, I realized that it was bone dry on fuel. The clear in-line filter that I installed for the gravity feed was still slam full. After I filled it back up with fuel, I started it up and it runs like a champ. Now with all that being said, I am not sure if it is actually the fuel that was the problem OR the coil!!!! I used it yesterday for a couple of hours and today for several hours and it has run like a champ. When I cut it off, I reached down and grabbed the coil, it was hot as a fire cracker. I do not know if I should leave it on or switch it back to the 12 volt??? I have had a 12 volter on it for a couple of years and now I don't know what to do. ANY SUGGESTIONS? I can not seem to find a cluster of wire in the harness. I've checked from the coil to the starter to the solenoid. If I have good blue-white fire with the 12 volt coil it should be ok? What will happen to the 6 volt coil if I leave it on? NAPA did not carry the IC8 that you referred to they did have a IC7 that matched up to the original part number. This IC7 has a built in resistor too. You have been a GREAT help to me through the past couple of years and I wish I could at least shake your hand. In my book, "you ARE the man"!!!! I wish I could help you out in some way as you have been gracious to me. If you are ever coming to VA Beach or close, let me know and I will treat ya to dinner, The Comedy club, Bush Gardens or what ever you and your family feel like doing!!! We have tons to do in Norfolk, VA too and that's just minutes from my location!!!

 

[Howard707]

When I said I checked to the starter, I meant that I checked to the starter switch

 

[Soundguy]

an IC7 DOES NOT have a built in resistor.

it says it is suitable for 12v WITH EXTERNAL RESISTOR

If you can get good spark with a 12v coil.. I'd say the resistor wire has been removed or bypassed.

one thing you can do is to ground points or bump engine till they are closed and then take a volt reading at the top of the coil.. if it is bat volts.. there is no series resistance. if it is less than bat volts.. say.. 8-10, then there IS sereis resistance.

 

[Soundguy]

ps.. if you opt for an IC7.. get the IC7SB.. it is 23$ vs 48 $

 

[Howard707]

Before I made another idiot of myself I went and double checked the writing on the coil. The coil #IC7SB 6 volt has an internal resistor and an external resister is not required. My Spanish is not the greatest but, it even says the same thing in Spanish.
If I checked the plug spark with the 6 volt it should be the same as with a 12 volt?
one thing you can do is to ground points or bump engine till they are closed and then take a volt reading at the top of the coil.. if it is bat volts.. there is no series resistance. if it is less than bat volts.. say.. 8-10, then there IS sereis resistance.

You do mean if I check the coil where the coil wire runs from the coil to the distributor right? Meaning if it is regular battery voltage then there is NO resistor and if it is in the range 8-10 then there IS a resistor within the harness? BOY, I sure must sound dumb!! Trust me though, I am smart in most mechanics yet, when it comes to electrical I am more or less a novice working towards a better understanding. Thanks again