1st Welding Project - Bucket hooks

Henro · Jul 30, 2003

Nice job! From the pics your beads look pretty nice! What rod did you use? 

jimg,

I mostly used 6013. First time I used this rod. I had read that it was easier to get a good bead with it than it is with 6010. Also I figured I would have less chance of burning through the bucket because 6013 penetrates less. I have about 5 lb of old 7018, that I practice with but I was unsure about using it on this project. I suppose I could have on the welds on that angle, there is so much weld there, but also wanted to try 6013 so that is what I did.

I did use 6010 for the root pass on the hooks. I had some trouble with getting a good bead as the smaller hooks were beveled on the bottom. Even at 90 amps dc with 1/8 rod it seemed way too hot.

My welder is a ThermalArc prowave 185. It's an inverter tig like the maxstar, or more like the Miller dynasty, but I've yet to try tig with it. Hope to do that soon and wish there was a class I could take on tig too...

Next thing on my welding list is a torch set up...trouble is there are too many list...tractor list...welding list...you know how that goes...

gsganzer · Jul 30, 2003

Henro,
Like you, I use 6013 w/ DC for most projects. It's very versatile and forgiving. The 7018 you mention is a low hydrogen rod, that's commonly used for high strength structural or pressure vessel welding. The problem is the 7018 is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture. They usually need to be kept in a rod oven to remain fresh.

If I need to throw down a lot of bead, I use 7014. If you get the speed and amps right, the slag can be flicked off easily and the beads look real pretty.

Welding is definitely a learned skill (I'm still learning) and practice makes perfect. I built about 1000' of 2 rail welded pipe fence around my horse pasture. It was a blast, I can share a lot of tips with anyone interested in a similar project. I'll try to post some pictures one of these days.

My next project is a metal raised center aisle 6 stall barn. I've been drafting the plans on AutoCAD, using a nearby barn manufacturers kit as my model. I'll be able to pre-fab all of the structural trusses in my workshop and then just bolt it all together. The manufacturer sells the kit for about $12,000 (not installed). I priced up all of the material and it will only cost me about $5,500 in material including the structural, roof panels, side panels and trim. What's really great is the trusses are light enough that you can put everything together using a rolling scaffold (no cranes or lifts). I'll post pictures when I start on that project.

jimg · Jul 30, 2003

Yes, the 6013 is a nice easy rod to use. It can be dragged unlike the 6010/11 which needs to be weaved. The 7018 is for low hydrogen tasks. Ive only run into one of those (my swingers). The pain w/ the low H rods is that to do it right they need to be kept in an oven to drive off moisture. I think theyre also made to be used hot. In any case I didnt heat mine and the project turned out OK. Really it only matters when codes are involved. If no one is insepcting then its pointless.

That was a good move to weld the root w/ a high penetrating rod. BTW a rough guesstimate for starting amperage is to take the decimal rod size and make it an integer. That is 1/8" rod would be .125 which gives 125 amps. Its been a while since Ive used a 6010/11 but as I recall I set the amps to somewhere around 100 or so. They do spatter more than other rods and are course. When using the 6010/11 you should whip the rod which helps weld quality and keeps the heat down. Sadly we didnt do that much w/ the 6010/11 rods but I think theyre pretty good once you get used to them. I my view they really shine b/c they penetrate deeply (which is wanted for most cases) and they dont require surface prep.

You have anice welder! Did this come TIG ready? THat is does it come w/ the internal gas valve and all? At the time only the Maxstar was available. I would have really liked to get a Dynasty 200 b/c there are times Id like to weld Al. When I take the TIG class Im going to get some pointers on DC Al welding...it can be done.

The gas rigs arent very expensive and you can get a really nice name brand that will do everything youll ever need. I got a Victor which is very common in my area. Its certainly not top of the line but then again itll cut 2" stuff w/ the right tip. I cant imagine needed that capability. Anyway once you get it youll wonder how you ever got along w/o. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The other thing its really good for is preheating. Ive run into a couple instances when a preheat was needed. jimg

hazmat · Jul 30, 2003

Kind of wish I had a MIG welder instead of stick. Took a number of rods to get this length done... 

You really didn't need a to fully weld the angle as far as strength goes. A 1" stich on 3" centers would have done nicely with maybe a little extra near the hooks. Might save you some time (& rods) when you buy tractor #3 /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Looks great, someday I'll get a welder...

accordionman · Jul 30, 2003

HENRO,
this is about the way i did mine, although i did not run
the angle full length of the bucket, and i skip welded
mine. i also used a spray can of kubota,$7.00 orange
paint. the back of the bucket is a weak point, and this
type of addition will give it a lot of strength. yours looks
strong!
accordionman
william l. brown
wright city, mo
L3000DT,FEL

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 30, 2003

Bill,

If my thread and subsequent posts on my welding class got you interested in taking your class I couldn't be happier. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif It sounds like you enjoyed yours as much as I enjoyed mine. You mentioned that now that you have your hooks you can't think of where to use them.

For what it's worth, I use my loader (and backhoe) for everything from lifting and carrying limbs, branches and logs to moving implements around because the one I need is always behind something else. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I guarantee you that if I had new hooks on my bucket I'd probably move some stuff in and out of the barn just to use them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm not really proud to admit that, but there it is. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Henro · Jul 30, 2003

You really didn't need a to fully weld the angle as far as strength goes. A 1" stich on 3" centers would have done nicely with maybe a little extra near the hooks. Might save you some time (& rods) when you buy tractor #3


Hazmat,

I figured as much, but since it was my first project with the welder and since I had not used the 6013 rod before, I thought I might as well just weld the whole thing up and be sure it wasn't coming off.

Next time I will stitch weld almost certainly. I did get some extra practice with the 6013 rod this way... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Having a welder does open a whole new world of opportunities... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jimg · Jul 30, 2003

While MIG can be strong you have to know how to setup the machine properly. Otherwise, you can make nice looking welds that have near 0 penetration. Ive repaired some of those. With stick 0 penetration is somewhat harder to achieve although it can be done its just harder to do. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RonR · Jul 30, 2003

Henro--you need a metal chop saw!

Appears you have a nice band saw with the view of your angle iron, but a chop saw makes short NICE work of things you need to cut for welding. You still need the torch for the bottom of the angle iron (in your case), but the chop saw saves a lot of time in getting pieces ready to weld.

I just use mine outside those as there are a LOT of sparks! Seeing your 100% weld reminds me of a friend who's motto is: "Anything worth Engineering is worth Over-Engineering!"

Best wishes,
Ron

dmartin88 · Jul 30, 2003

Looks great, I added a couple of hooks to my BX22 a few weeks back, not nearly as elaborate of a job as you did and mine still aren't painted. They were one of my first welding projects (I have a MIG welder) as well and good experience.

Mine are still holding, looks like yours will be there after the bucket tears off!

B21nut · Jul 30, 2003

Henro, Really nice job. Its cool you improvised on the color.
I have two questions. What size hooks did you go with and what is that little bench/table with the collapsable legs?
Thanks
John

Skeptic · Jul 30, 2003

Speaking of welding classes.
One thing that I have enjoyed about the one I am taking is that the instructor started us off with E-6010 5/32. Every other night they kind of chase you to a new machine so you can get experience setting it up. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
On the arc welding, until we do test plates, we work with 8" long 1 1/2 and 2" wide bar stock that is 3/8" thick. Long enough you have to learn to change electrodes to keep working. They teach a stringer and stringer oscillating technique, so you we put down 6 beads in a joint (thicker materials will have more). Then they take it and break it (or try to) on a press.
On my T-Joint last night (overhead with 3/8" 2" bar stock) I managed to get all 6 beads down looking pretty good. One of the more experienced students said.. "if you can do that with 6010 on your first try you will love MIG and TIG--they are LOTS easier"
Now the nice thing is that I can use the shop equipment to build a project for the class. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Having a plamsa cutter and oxy-fuel cutting table available as well as some hydraulic shears is very handy for getting everything cut out.
One of the guys in the class even taught me how to make a slag hammer out of Rebar. It really holds it's edge.
I am not planning on getting a job welding, but it is kind of fun to be able to try to do as well as some of the people that have welded for years. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

jimg · Jul 30, 2003

Sounds like you have a really good instructor! Did you learn to gas weld? If so you have the motions down that youll need for TIG. Like you I had a blast learning how to weld. We also had a night of MIG & TIG. I didnt much care for MIG but I think its going to become much more popular in the future. I know alot of bigger outfits are beginning to switch from stick to MIG.

So, how to you make slagging hammer from rebar??
jimg

reedfish1954 · Jul 30, 2003

Guys,

I, like you guys use 6013, 7014, and 7018AC with my Hobart Stickmate. THe reason I like 6013 and 7014 is that they are considered "contact" electrodes. As you know that means you keep the electrode "IN Contact" with the base metal and no arc gap is needed as in 6010/6011. Stay ahead of the puddle and the find the "sweet heat" and they come out just beautifully. 7014 has better penetration than 6013 and not as good as deep penetrating 6011/6010. As you said, both 7014, 6013 and 7018AC need real good metal prep as compared to 6011/6010.

Skeptic · Jul 31, 2003

The first week we worked on Oxy-Fuel. We were welding 18 and 16 gauge metal. We did Lap Joints, T-Joints, inside and outside corners. I didn't get butt joints done yet.
Then we moved to arc welding. I move to vertical tomorrow night. I am using 6010 & 6011 5/32. The like to give us the most challenging stuff to start /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif So it is gratifying when the instructor says, "good job".
The rebar slag hammer is great. Using 3/4" rebar you do the pointy end first. We cut the head to about 6 inches (the thicker the rebar the shorter you can have it). We used a cutting torch to heat the end of the rebar to red hot, then using a hammer (we used a ballpeen hammer) pound and form to a point. Easier than it sounds actually. Oh, I am holding the other end with a pair of vice grips.
Anyway after I am happy with the pointed end, I went to work on the angle. This time I am just working on two sides. Again, heating the rebar to red hot and then hammering.
After the shaping we could either cut the head in two and put it on a rebar handle or weld the head to handle. I choose to cut the head and weld it to the handle. Once I attached it, I again heated the ends to red hot and then quenched them in hydraulic fluid.
The rebar slag hammer really holds its edge well and it is actually sharper than the store bought ones.
One of the students actually took some bar stock for his handle. He twisted it and made a separate handle wrap. Really good looking.
As soon as I finish vertical I will move to MIG for a couple of weeks, then TIG. It is really cool to have enough time to become comfortable with each process and to learn how to set the machines for the type of welding you are going to do.
I have all Oxy-Fuel, Stick, MIG, and TIG welding equipment available at home, so learning each process is worthwhile. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here is a sample from tonight's class. This is an 8 inch 3/8" bar stock. The T-Joint was welded overhead with E-6011 5/32". There are 6 passes on the joint. I still am working on consistancy, but I am having a great time.

TomD · Aug 3, 2003

Henro,

Nice looking job on the bucket hooks! I am collecting parts to do the same on my BX22 when it arrives--still waiting for delivery--due in any day now. Anyway my question is what you think about 1/4" angle that is about 8" long under each hook? Do you think it will be strong enough? I am not sure I want to run a piece the full length of the loader. I plan to mount the angle just as you did under each hook--right, left , center.

Any comments would be appreciated. By the way, since the capacity of the BX loader is just under 500# my guess is that I don't have a whole lot to worry about.

RonR · Aug 3, 2003

My bucket hooks are made lighter

I welded the hooks to a piece of 1/4 plate about 4 x 6 inches. Made a similar plate to use as backup on the inside of the bucket. Will mount with two 1/2 inch bolts each. Haven't installed them yet, but I'm confident that no more than the loader will lift, they will be adequate.

I used to hear that you shouldn't weld on a machine that had an alternator as it could somehow damage it (maybe old wife's tale), so I didn't want to weld it straight to the bucket or have to remove the loader to do it.

If I figure out how to load photos, will do that someday.

Best wishes,
Ron

Henro · Aug 3, 2003

Anyway my question is what you think about 1/4" angle that is about 8" long under each hook? Do you think it will be strong enough? I am not sure I want to run a piece the full length of the loader. 

TomD,

I'd bet that would work fine. Others have done similar things and seem happy with the result.

I wanted to put a piece of something across the full width, because occasionally I push on a small tree and wanted the extra strenght so I would not bend the top lip that way. Also thought it would be just generally stronger.

Originally I was going to put a piece of black steel pipe behind the lip. 1.25 inch fit in perfectly...but then I remembered I had that piece of angle laying around waiting to be use, and since it gave more surface area to weld the hooks to that is what I ended up using...

varmint · Aug 4, 2003

As typical for TBN, interesting and informative! I have so little welding experience that it don't figure, but I can add that TSC sells Kubota orange spray paint for 3 or 4 bucks a can- so no need to compromise an otherwise perfect job.

GSS · Aug 6, 2003

Nice job Bill!

I've been wanting to take a welding class for over a year now. Where did you take yours? Would you recommend the program?

Thanks!

- Gerald