2,4-D

[RancherSam]

I just bought some 2,4-D to apply on broadleaf weeds. The label says it's 2,4-D Amine 4. I'd like to know what Amine 4 stands for, and whether this is the right 2,4-D to get to spray as a liquid herbicide for broadleaves. I'll be picking up my 60 gallon sprayer in a couple of days and hopefully I can spray soon after. The label indicates 2-4 pints / acre, but I have no idea how much that is in a 60 gallon sprayer. I guess I'll have to look at the gpm application rate (from what the pump is rated at), ground speed and figure out how much product I use per acre. But I have no idea when I've covered an acre so I'll have to calculate the area I'm covering with a 10ft swath, and when I cover 40000 sq ft I would've covered an acre blah blah blah, you know what I'm just going to guess and see what looks to be a reasonable applications. Any pointers? I'm covering about 30 acres, not all in one shot, probably 10 acres at a time with frequent refills.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Do a search for "Calibrate a sprayer", when you get your sprayer, calibrate it so you know how much product will be coming out over a set distance at a set speed. Then do the math.

With a 10' boom if you travel 5mph at around 30 psi you should be putting down around 20 gallons of water per acre so your tank will do 3 acres at a time. But calibrate it and follow the directions on your herbicide label and you should be ok. If you are worried about putting on too much then stay on the low side of the recommendations.

One other option for calibrating your sprayer (not a perfect calibration but one that is easy to do and fairly fast) is to mark out a 205x205' square and spray it with just water and keep track of your speed, psi and rpms. When you are done with the square, see how much water you applied and that is your rate per acre. If you put 15 gallons of water on that acre then your 60 gallon tank will do 4 acres, if you used 30 gallons of water then you will cover 2 acres.

 

[huskerfarmer]

Can you say AGENT ORANGE, REMEMBER VIETNAM

 

[johnk]

Very similar usage but 2,4d doeasn't have dioxins in it. Also it isn't in an orange 55 gallon drum...
Exceprt..

The herbicide 2,4-D does not contain dioxin, it remains one of the most-used herbicides in the world today.[citation needed]

The LD50, according to US EPA 2,4-D Reregistration Eligiblity Decision, 2006,is 639 mg/kg. Single oral doses of 5 and 30 mg/kg body weight did not cause any acute toxic effects in human volunteers.

The amine salt formulations can cause irreversible eye damage; ester formulations are considered non-irritating to the eyes.[citation needed]

On August 8, 2007, the United States Environmental Protection Agency issued a ruling which stated existing data do not support a conclusion that links human cancer to 2,4-D exposure.[citation needed]

 

[john_bud]

Yeah that is the stuff for dandy lions, clover and other weeds in the lawn.

Before you mix the 2,4 to the tank, run the tractor down the road with a GPS and spray the road with pure water. Get a feel for how well it covers, how much over spray you get and that stuff. The higher you lift the sprayer (3pt mounted) and the higher the pressure the greater the over spray and wind drift. While fairly benign, you should know that 2,4-d has the uncanny ability to seek out and kill your wife's flowers, no matter how careful you think you are being. Just watch out!

jb

 

[Retired Iron Peddler]

Can you say AGENT ORANGE, REMEMBER VIETNAM

That's 2,4,5-T... different stuff than 2,4-D.
I sprayed many gallons of 2,4,5-T mixed with diesel fuel to eliminate mesquite and prickly pear cactus from the pastures on a farm we purchased in the early 60s and I'm still here to talk about it!

Bill

 

[WarrenF]

RancherSam.....you are making it way too complicated. If you want a strong kill, i.e., you have a lot of broadleaf you are wanting to kill, then mix the 24-D about 2 ounces per gallon of water. If you have a 60 gallon sprayer then you would put about 120 ounces of 2-4-D in your spray rig and then fill it with water and perhaps some common dish soap which works as a sticker agent...cheaper than the stuff they sell just for that use.

Hook up and start spraying.....stop, get off the tractor and walk back to the area you just sprayed....is it fairly wet? does it look like you got good coverage? If so then jump back on the tractor and keep spraying. 2-4-D is cheap....now with some of the other stuff, I would say you might need to calibrate.

Another thing you might do is this.....Fill your tank with just water. Turn the spray rig on while sitting on an area that is plain dirt. That way you can see if your nozzles are at the proper height and are giving you a good overlapping cover. Then you can mix the spray and go to work. I have found that within two hours, if you spray on a good sunny day, you will see how good your kill rate has been. Most broadleaf plants will start showing signs of spray in that period of time. I like to say you can see their heads start hanging down and they look like their sick.

Have fun....nothing more satisfying, well next to plowing, than to spray a broadleaf infested area and see the plants getting sick.....makes you realize their is a God and a hoe is NOT an extension of your arm.

 

[lawn_king]

Amine formulations are safer to apply in the heat. You need to calibrate that sprayer with water before you mix the pesticide. You need to figure how many gallons per 1000 sq. ft. you are spraying. You will find a per 1000 rate on the product label.

 

[mjncad]

Some of these threads may be of help too, and I bought one of these FIMCO calibration bottles from Gemplers that makes life easier.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/119396-small-sprayer-spray-rates.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/120569-custom-sprayer-2.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/119965-sprayer-question-2.html

Field Sprayer Calibrator, Crop, Turf & Nursery Production - GEMPLER'S

 

[charlz]

While fairly benign, you should know that 2,4-d has the uncanny ability to seek out and kill your wife's flowers, no matter how careful you think you are being. Just watch out!

My wife just noted that phenomena the other night

Kinda like the saying "What's the difference between plants and weeds? Weeds grow." I swear you can soak weeds all day with herbicide and they take forever to die... get one microscopic droplet on something you didn't mean to hit and it's dead in an hour.

 

[chh]

Yeah watch the wife's roses and really watch out if you have a garden. 2,4-D is instant death on tomatoes. Spraying without calibrating is not very smart. IMO Too little spray will have little or no affect and too much may actually kill or stunt the grasses you want to grow.

If your sprayer is new, be sure and get the owners manual. It should have a chart for the nozzle(s) on your sprayer. After you fill it with water and adjust the pressure (20 to 50 psi is a common recommendation, high pressure can atomize the chemical more and cause more wind drift problems)use a container or trash bag(works great for boom busters) to catch the output for a measured time to get your GPM. Check that against the chart. Find a speed on your tractor that will give you at least 12 gallons of water per acre, 15 is the common recomendation for 2,4-D in Oklahoma. The recommended rate for early broadleaf weeds if 1.5 pints per acre. At a 15 GPA spray rate you could do 4 acre on a tank, so you would need 6 pints of 2,4-D. I have used the cheap dishwashing liquid, but I prefer the commercial adjuvant. It is $10.50 a gallon locally and I use 1 quart in a 500 gallon tank. Any more than that and I get too much foam in the tank. Most recommendations also to not spray in winds over 10 mph to help keep wind drift down.

AS an example here are the specs for my setup.
I can adjust to 40 psi at 1500 engine rpms to get a smooth pump flow(and have adequate power for the tractor to pull steadily). At that RPM in seventh gear I get 4 mph(100 feet in 17 seconds). That also give me a rate of 15 GPA coverage(with boombuster nozzles), 500 gallons covers 33 acres x 1.5 pints equals 49.5 pints (6.2 gallons) of 2,4-D per tank.

 

[RonMar]

There should be a spray chart that comes with your sprayer that shows the gallons per 100 SQ/Ft, gallons per 1000 SQ/FT and gallons per acre, per nozzle based on pressure and speed. It should also be on the sprayer/nozzle manufacturers website if they have one. This is also dependent on the nozzle height, and the correct height should be listed with the chart. I spray at the lowest pressure I can to avoid the ultra fine mist and too much drifted overspray. For 2,4-D you just want it to kind of rain down on the broad leaves anyway which will naturally catch more of the falling spray anyway. As an example, on my chart, if I spray at 20PSI and travel at 3 MPH, I will deliver 20 gallons per acre per nozzle, which is a good quantity. It dosn't matter how many nozzles, more just means you will cover the acre quicker at a given speed.

I mix 32 OZ(2 pints) of 2,4-D Amine to 20 gallons of water(8 OZ/5 gal). I have a 25 gallon sprayer so I add 40 OZ to that 25 gallons. IF I travel at 3MPH, 20 gallons, and the 2 pints of 2,4-D it carries will be distributed over an acre. Sprayed on a warm sunny day, this minimum ammount seems to work real well for my situation.

The key, at least for me is to maintain that speed as best I can. I tow my sprayer behind my garden tractor which has a hydrostatic drive unit. because of this, it is not directly coupled to the engine, so the tach is not real good for maintaining speed, and the tractor will speed up going down hill. To help maintain a steady speed when spraying, I added a bycycle speedometer(about $9 at wallmart) which counts the passings of a magnet that I attached to one of the rear wheels. With the wheel diameter loaded into the speedo, it converts the rotation count into MPH.

That 8OZ/5Gal mix is also good for spot spraying, which is what I do close around the house, and how I avoid killing my wifes flowers Just wet the weeds with a little bit of spray(it goes a long way) It also greatly reduces the ammount I put down around the house, as the dog and cats use this area regularly.

 

[AchingBack]

I don't know how practical it is to use dye in a large sprayer, but I find it invaluable when I am using my Solo backpack sprayer. I never have to wonder if I missed a patch or two. I use a blue liquid dye made just for this purpose. I too add liquid dish detergent as a cheap surfactant.

 

[patrick_g]

Ron, What a clever idea. I gotta get a bicycle speedo! That will sure take the guess work out of using a hydrostat!

I just love it when so simple and useful of an idea is shared.

Now, regarding guessing at spray delivery rates...

In general a bad idea. I don't like to spray more chemical than needed and when guessing by glancing at how wet the sprayed area is I have no real way of knowing how much I am putting down.

Also, in general, dish soap does not do as good as a surfactant sold for the purpose of being added to a spray to wet the leaves of plants by reducing the surface tension. I'm not saying it never works but there is a reason the pros buy surfactant instead of Wally World dish soap.

Pat

 

[AchingBack]

Ron, What a clever idea. I gotta get a bicycle speedo! That will sure take the guess work out of using a hydrostat!

I just love it when so simple and useful of an idea is shared.

Now, regarding guessing at spray delivery rates...

In general a bad idea. I don't like to spray more chemical than needed and when guessing by glancing at how wet the sprayed area is I have no real way of knowing how much I am putting down.

Also, in general, dish soap does not do as good as a surfactant sold for the purpose of being added to a spray to wet the leaves of plants by reducing the surface tension. I'm not saying it never works but there is a reason the pros buy surfactant instead of Wally World dish soap.

Pat

The best surfactant I have ever used is Amway's, LOC, a liquid organic concentrate, with a coconut base. One drop on the head of a pin will cause a teaspoon of water to immediately absorb into a piece of cardboard, which is wood, which is vegetation, which weeds are. I don't know how much it cost now, but it was very reasonable back in the 1970's

 

[patrick_g]

The best surfactant I have ever used is Amway's, LOC, a liquid organic concentrate, with a coconut base. One drop on the head of a pin will cause a teaspoon of water to immediately absorb into a piece of cardboard, which is wood, which is vegetation, which weeds are. I don't know how much it cost now, but it was very reasonable back in the 1970's

Uh, interesting progression from a pin head to a plant...

The reason for the surfactant is to lower the surface tension so you can wet the foliage. The plants have a waxy or oily surface in many instances (not at all like highly absorbent cardboard) which causes the droplets in the spray to bead up and not have much surface contact. With the surfactant the droplets spread out over a much greater area and transfer the chemical in the spray into the plant much more effectively.

I remember that pyramid scheme, Amway. There must have been hundreds of thousands if not millions of people with a garage full of Amway products all looking for other people to work under them selling product.

Pat

 

[Bird]

I've always used Weed-B-Gon for broadleaf weeds, but I've heard and read so much about 2,4-D that I bought my first bottle of it recently, mixed 2 oz. per gallon in a little one gallon pump up spray rig and spot sprayed around my yard. It did a real good job of killing weeds; sure wish it hadn't killed the grass at the same time. Maybe (I hope) the grass will recover, but right now it looks as if I'd have been just about as well off to use Round-Up.

 

[chh]

It sounds like you got it a little too heavy there Bird. A poster not long ago mentioned using 2,4-D at a 6 pint per acre rate to kill bermuda grass to put in new sod for baseball fields ect... Soil supposedly deactivates it rather quickly, so unlike Roundup your yard should hopefully recover fairly soon.

 

[patrick_g]

It sounds like you got it a little too heavy there Bird. A poster not long ago mentioned using 2,4-D at a 6 pint per acre rate to kill bermuda grass to put in new sod for baseball fields ect... Soil supposedly deactivates it rather quickly, so unlike Roundup your yard should hopefully recover fairly soon.

You might want to spray less next time. The concentration required to kill broad leaf vegitation is lower than for most grass so you should be able to kill out a lot of weeds without killing a lot of grass.

Pat

 

[Robert_in_NY]

My wife just noted that phenomena the other night

Kinda like the saying "What's the difference between plants and weeds? Weeds grow." I swear you can soak weeds all day with herbicide and they take forever to die... get one microscopic droplet on something you didn't mean to hit and it's dead in an hour.

I am not sure how delicate the flowers that were affected are but it is illegal to spray 2-4D around vineyards here (within a half mile minimum if I recall) as 2-4D can volatize and the vapors can severly damage the vineyard. This could be a similar problem you guys are finding with some flowers.